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HAWK21M
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

Need Max Advice From Pilots/Mx

Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:57 pm

Im currently working in an Airline operating B737 classics,The comming months I need to take a decision on joining an Airline having more modern Aircraft.
Till date I held back on moving on because my Kid was ill & I could not take a decision as I was needed to be in the city in case of an Emergency.
Attending Approved training requres 2-3 months of dedicated study time & my personal problem could not gaurentee that I would not be present on all days for the Approved training hence I could not decide.
Now 3 yrs hence,The childs condition has Improved miricalously & I feel confident of moving on.

I have Three options:-
Option A:-
Joining a Private Airline with B737NGs.I'll need to spend a year to get requisite practical Experience,simultaneously need to attend approved training on the Type,before satisfying DGCA officials & getting an endorsement on my A&C Licence.
The Drawback is since this Airline is already in Existence,I start at the Bottom of the Ladder in terms of Seniority & can only move up as the Guys in front leave or move on.

Option B:-
Joining a Govt controlled Airline operating A320s,& soon to acquire 40+ aircraft.Will need to attend approved training abroad.Before Endorsement of Existing Licence.
The Drawback is that its a new type of Aircraft from the one Im familiar with,The Recruitment process is very lengthy.Again Seniority problems mean starting at the bottom of the ladder.

Option C:-
Joining a proposed private Airline supposed to be launching in the next 5 months.Will need to attend approved training,prior to endorsement on A320s.
Since its a new airline the question of Seniority problems dont occur.
Drawback is that it would be a LCC,so salaries & security of the job matters.

Im sure most may be familiar with what the options are.There are a few more options which I have knocked off.

Now my choice is out of these Three.My Existing job is great,except the Nights are getting too much,& the Aircraft are B737classics.

Looking for Any Tips,Ideas,Advice,Suggestions from Pilots/Mx personnel out there to help me decide more correctly.
I plan to move in 4-5 months if things go as planned.
Looking Forward to your replies.
regds
MEL



I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
cancidas
Posts: 3985
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:34 am

RE: Need Max Advice From Pilots/Mx

Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:09 pm

now, i'm not a commercial pilot, but a pilot nonetheless. personally, i'd take option c. since you'd join at the beginning you'd lose the problem of seniroty as you so stated. now, you'd be flying modern multi turbine a/c. that time logged always counts. you can always take that time to other carriers if you so wish in the future.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Need Max Advice From Pilots/Mx

Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:31 pm

Thanks.Cancidas.
Im From Maintenance not a Pilot.Out here We are called AMEs or Aircraft Maintenance Engineers,licenced on Airframe & Engines.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2821
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

RE: Need Max Advice From Pilots/Mx

Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:14 pm

I think the scary thing about C is the fact that the airline is proposed. It would be a huge risk to make that jump. If you were here in the US, I'd say that B would be the best option. If I were in your shoes I'd take the one that has the most stability. While being at the low end of the list means you'll have bad shifts, it may pay better and have the bennefit of knowing that the airline has government backing and has been around for a while. If your child has been ill this may be something to consider if healthcare is an issue.

Whatever you do, I wish you the best. I will keep your child in my prayers for continued good health.
DMI
 
SATL382G
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Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Need Max Advice From Pilots/Mx

Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:52 am

What are the prospects of your present employer obtaining more modern equipment? If the carrier is healthy they should be in the market to make capital improvements soon and you could keep your seniority.

Good to hear your kid is well.
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Need Max Advice From Pilots/Mx

Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:25 am

Present Employer will not get rid of the B737 classics in the near Future.The next 2-3 yrs is out of the Question.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Need Max Advice From Pilots/Mx

Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:05 am

Hi MEL,
First I would like to express my sympathy for your child and I hope that he/she will be better as soon as possible without any problems.

As I am now living the same process you are referring(changing from one airline to another) I very much understand what you are getting through.

Although I am not a mechanic,I can guess seniority is still one of the main factors.There sure be advantages involwed being senior on the employe list.You shouldnt want a place lower than you are now unless it will provide you better in the future(for example I have just joined the last row of the FO's in my new airline but in the long run I will have some other benefits for my life and I can show my self better in this small airline with less pilots rather than the other place which had a lot of pilots expecting to be upgraded to captain)

I dont know the exact benefits of changing a new aircraft type for a mechanic(but having a new type rating on your licence wouldn't hurt)

ABout the proposed airline I must say an old saying that we have in Turkish which roughly translates"Loosing the rise on your plate while trying have meat on other plate" which means you may loose what ever you have now while trying to get something looks better now but might not be the same in the long run.
Start up airlines always have a lot of problems in the beginning(I experienced this first hand) and always have the risk of bankrupcy until it can get a good market share.If goes down you will loose everything even if you become the chief mechanic.

Changes in your career is more risky when you have a family and children,your decision will effect them alot,so I wish you good luck and hope for the best for you and your family.WING
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
Dalmd88
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RE: Need Max Advice From Pilots/Mx

Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:27 pm

How modern the aircraft isn't really that important. So the place you are at will not be getting new aircraft in the next few years. Do you like working there? Is the pay better at one of the other options? How about stablity of the opertation. Where will you have to live. Which operation has the best chances for advancement? I learned more in my first job as a mechanic because we had wore out airplanes and no money. Sure the pay sucked and they didn't last long. look at other things than the shinny new metal. They don't stay new for very long.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Need Max Advice From Pilots/Mx

Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:30 pm


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To answer your questions.
Yes Im very happy in the place I currently work.In fact I think I got a job that I Enjoy & they pay me for it Smile

The only drawback is the Night shifts which gets very tough between mid December to Mid February every year because of Fog at Del,Delaying all departures & causing divertions to BOM.Forcing me to spend hrs at the Airport without going home at times for a few days.[My unofficial weight loss programme,Invariably every year I loose 4-6 kgs at this time].

I'm thankful for my kids miracalous recovery,I dont know how managed to work with this pressure without cracking.I guess I tried to look at the brighter side always.My seniors were supportive too & that helped.

But the one reason thats Tempting me away is the Fleet.I need to work on B737NGs or A319/20/21s as I feel these are the Aircrafts that will be around when I retire,not the classics.I dont want to attend trainings & pass exams when Im older & need more time to recollect things.

Frankly speaking I just cant take a decision.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Need Max Advice From Pilots/Mx

Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:32 am

Folks.
My current Employer will not change over to NGs but have decided to raise payscale "Always Above existing market value" [The market in consideration will be from SE Asia to Middle East].
that means if things go as promised by March we would be paid above any Airline in the Area always.
The only disapointing factor is the Classics.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
A320-Tech
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2002 11:49 am

RE: Need Max Advice From Pilots/Mx

Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:58 pm

MEL,

You have a tuff choice. Certainly a lot more thought needs to go into your move than I had a few years back as I only had to consider myself, not a family. I was in a similar situation where I was working on 747-100/-200 & DC-9-30 and the company was privately held, not going to upgrade(not really a factor for me) or even grow the small fleet(career longevity in question).

I made the move to 'Option C' similar to your scenario instead of one of the majors (yes I had job offers) and it has been the best move that I have made as of yet. The decision was good on many points, not only that after 9/11 so many people were laid off but still continue to get laid off and there are many of the 'legacy' carriers that still aren't doing well and will continue to face lay-offs as they reduce their fleet sizes as they pull out of unprofitable routes. I have many friends with these legacy carriers and I feel bad for those who have been displaced but fortunately many have been picked up by my employer.

I believe I know about this 'proposed' airline and the team that has been assembled to lead the company will be nothing short of successful, including the VP of Technical Operations(having worked for him). I believe that your 'Option C' will be the best bet as I've seen the demographics / marketing of what they're going to do and it looks very promising. I believe that the company that is backing the airline, for whose namesake it will carry has a large financial backing. This is no small thing considering that they're going to be purchasing new A320s.

Again aircraft wasn't a factor for me but it is nice to continue to grow and learn new systems & aircraft. There really is something to be said for a 'known quantity/quality'. Granted that you might be surrounded with co-workers who are intimately familiar with the product because they have been there for their whole career, on the flip side you will be that person 10 years down the road with a brand new operation matures. What's a plus is all the things that you might want to see done differently you can have a hand in molding with a new operation as things aren't set in stone. This has been one of the most enjoyable things so far for myself, having a hand in how we do things.

Ultimately you need to evaluate weather you are comfortable enough in staying where you are with a company that you feel compensates you well vs the chance of working on newer aircraft with a completely different approach to trouble shooting and the chance to get in on the ground floor and potentially help to mold things the right way. All that and keeping in mind you have a family to consider. Its a tough call, but I'm happy that I've made the jump to a new operation.

I'm glad that your son is doing well. Best of luck to you!

A320-Tech
 
Buzz
Posts: 694
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RE: Need Max Advice From Pilots/Mx

Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:47 pm

Hi Hawk21M, Buzz here. Like DALMD88, and A320 Tech have said, you don't face easy choices.
But to help organize them, write down the 3 most important things to you: the 3 things you want to keep in your life (at home with your family, not job related) and see what company will fit best. Next, think about 5 years into the future, does it look interesting, or will it be more of the same stuff?

I'd forgotten that you tend to be licenced in each kind of airplane, here in the States we don't specialize in one Fleet, but get trained and qualified in whatever needs doing. "The new airplanes won't stay new for long" - sure, there is some attraction to learning / playing with a new kind of flying machine. But after 5 years it can become the same boring job. (grin)

I've been holding steady with UAL for the last several years, even though i've considered better jobs. Our kids are almost done with high school, and i wanted to have a steady home for teenage kids. Not much longer and i'll feel free to look for better places.
Consider this: when people get old and think about their young productive years, i don't recall any of my elderly freinds saying "i wish i'd spent more time at work!" There's more to life than simply having a job.

g'day
Buzz Fuselsasuage: Line Mechanic by night, DC-3 Crew Chief by choice, taildragger pilot for fun.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Need Max Advice From Pilots/Mx

Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:54 am

Real good Tips.Thanks a lot.
Keep the Info Going.

Personally I love to get home with the Family,Go out for a drive with them or just stay at home with them.The current job has all that,including good pay & Im very happy here.I feel as if Im enjoying my job & yet getting paid for it.

The only drawback is the Night shifts which get very tough 3 months a year due Fog at Delhi,causing a lot of delays at Bom [Mumbai].
And the Classics.I feel I need to work on the B737NGs/A319/320/321s which will be in the Indian Domestic market for a longer time.

Hence the decision making is very important.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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HAWK21M
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Posts: 29917
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Need Max Advice From Pilots/Mx

Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:40 pm

A slight change thanks to the Indian Civil Aviation Policy.
With Permission Granted to 9W & S2 to fly SE Asia & Europe/US.
Things have brightened in their Favour.
Although IA is an option I still hold high.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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