Thrust
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Differences Between Boeing And Airbus Wing Designs

Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:53 am

I have been amazed at how easy it is to tell an Airbus apart from a Boeing just by looking at its wing. The Boeing wing consists of several flaps with fewer ailerons...the Airbus wing appears to have a lot more ailerons. What are the advantages that each wing gets from these very different arrangements of ailerons? Also, why does Boeing try to avoid wingtip fences, yet Airbus tries to avoid blended winglets and raked wingtips?
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
lehpron
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RE: Differences Between Boeing And Airbus Wing Designs

Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:48 am

Dude, the idea is to have a better prduct than your competitor, that is the life of business.

Either:

  • Independent invention, or


  • Different part designs have different functions or uses or efficiencies, etc.


  • BTW, all if not all wingtip devices function the same, they cant look however yo ufriggin want them to, they all alter the induced vortex flow to the advantage of the airplane's performance(s).

    I would not want them to be to extremely similar, otherwise there would be lawsuits. Big grin

    I donno.  Sleepy
    The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
     
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    HAWK21M
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    RE: Differences Between Boeing And Airbus Wing Designs

    Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:42 pm

    I guess its a choice of the Manufacturer & what works for them.
    regds
    MEL
    I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
     
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    jumbojim747
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    RE: Differences Between Boeing And Airbus Wing Designs

    Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:08 pm

    Maybe as simple as wanting to be different.
    On a wing and a prayer
     
    dw747400
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    RE: Differences Between Boeing And Airbus Wing Designs

    Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:19 pm

    "The Boeing wing consists of several flaps with fewer ailerons...the Airbus wing appears to have a lot more ailerons."

    Could you explain that a bit more? I was under the impression that designs from both companies either had low speed and high speed ailerons or a single set of ailerons...
    CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
     
    aeroweanie
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    RE: Differences Between Boeing And Airbus Wing Des

    Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:59 am

    Boeing wings tend to have inboard high speed ailerons and outboard low speed ailerons. The exceptions are the 737 and 757, which only have outboard ailerons. All Boeings have leading edge devices, usually a mixture of Krueger flaps (707, inboard on 727 and 737, variable camber on 747 and I'm told on the 787) and slats (outboard on 727, 737, full span on 757, 767 and 777). Boeing rarely uses winglets (747-400 787-3 are the exceptions and the 737-700 and 737-800 are available with APB winglets). Instead, they are getting hooked on raked wingtips (767-400, 777-300ER, 787-8 and 787-9). All Boeing have spoilers that are used for roll control at higher speeds and as lift dumpers. Boeing originated the idea of using spoiler for roll control on the B-47, to counter aileron reversal from wing torsional windup.

    Airbus used inboard high speed ailerons and outboard low speed ailerons on the A300B2 & B4. In an unusual move, on the A310 they got rid of the low speed ailerons, and this carried over onto the A300-600. The A318/319/320/321, A330/340 and A380 only have outboard ailerons. Airbus uses full-span slats on all their aircraft, but I know that some A300s (and possibly the A310) have a single Krueger flap segment inboard at the wing root. Airbus uses spoilers the same way as Boeing. Airbus has added small winglets to the A310, A300-600, A318/319/320/321 (except the A320-100) and the A380. On the A330/340 the winglet is bigger, but still not as big as the APB winglets.

    For completeness sake, Douglas has full-span slats on the DC-9 and DC-10. On the DC-8, they have slots that opened up inboard of the pylons. The DC-10 has inboard high speed ailerons and outboard low speed ailerons. The DC-8 (I think) and the DC-9 only have outboard ailerons. Douglas never used winglets (except on the MD-11) and also used spoilers like Boeing and Airbus.
     
    Thrust
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    RE: Differences Between Boeing And Airbus Wing Designs

    Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:20 pm

    Here...let me give an example of the clear differences between the Boeing and Airbus wings:


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    Photo © Stuart Lawson




    Note how Airbus appears to have a single gigantic flap on each wing, while Boeing appears to have two different flaps on each wing? This is a common concept found on both aircraft. Does this help out?
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    MD-90
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    RE: Differences Between Boeing And Airbus Wing Designs

    Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:17 pm

    Differently design philosophy, I guess. Airbus makes their flaps extending all the way across the wing, even though they're not actually a single unit. Boeing goes for deeper flaps with more travel, but they're segmented (they have to be to avoid engine exhaust).

    The DC-10/MD-11 are roughly the same as Boeing's widebodies (flap-wise)


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    The strange ones are the L-1011's Fowler flaps (which move back and down), and the older VC-10 and C-5 (which look heavy)


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    LeanOfPeak
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    RE: Differences Between Boeing And Airbus Wing Designs

    Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:31 pm

    OK, it was covered...

    [Edited 2005-02-07 08:33:58]
     
    aeroweanie
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    RE: Differences Between Boeing And Airbus Wing Designs

    Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:41 am

    All Boeing and Airbus flaps are Fowler flaps, which translate aft and then pivot down. Douglas used Single Pivot flaps, which moved similar to Fowler flaps.

    The high speed ailerons I referred to are the gap you see in the DC-10, A300, A310, 707, 727, 747, 767 and 777 flaps. The idea was to provide a path for the engine exhaust.

    One other detail - airliner wings typical have "Yehudis", where the trailing edge is extended in the inboard area. This provides depth to contain the landing gear stub spar. Its easier to make the flap in this area a separate piece, as opposed to part of a bigger piece.
     
    Tobi3334
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    RE: Differences Between Boeing And Airbus Wing Designs

    Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:11 am

    Look at this picture .... its nice to compare the wing size.


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    Greetings,
    Tobi
     
    aeroweanie
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    RE: Differences Between Boeing And Airbus Wing Designs

    Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:43 pm

    If anyone out there is interested in reading more about airliner wing design (specifically high lift system design), I recommend reading:
    http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19960052267_1996080955.pdf
     
    Pihero
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    RE: Differences Between Boeing And Airbus Wing Designs

    Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:17 pm

    AeroWeanie,
    Many many thanks for hat NASA study. I copied and printed it for constant reference.I wish every system description manual would be so thorough.
    Best regards
    Contrail designer
     
    Thrust
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    RE: Differences Between Boeing And Airbus Wing Designs

    Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:33 am

    THanks everyone for your input, especially AeroWeanie for providing that awesome NASA link. It's always nice to learn something new.

    --Thrust
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    HAWK21M
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    RE: Differences Between Boeing And Airbus Wing Designs

    Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:00 pm

    Excellent link.
    Thanks.
    regds
    MEL
    I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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