ERJ145LR
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How Many Times Will A Plane Get A New Engine?

Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:40 pm

yeah...so how many times throught... say an airbus 320's life would it have its engines replaces? it seems like it is done fairly frequently, but that may just be my imagination!

[Edited 2005-02-21 04:42:45]
 
Gemuser
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RE: How Many Times Will A Plane Get A New Engine?

Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:54 pm

As often as the engine needs work that will take longer than the acceptable downtime for the aircraft in the current circumstances.

Or expressed another way, the aircraft and engines each have their own maintance schedules and they don't always coincide, so if it will get the aircraft back into service they will just change the engine.

Its not like a car when it usually has the same engine, or maybe two for its whole life.

Gemuser
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lutfi
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RE: How Many Times Will A Plane Get A New Engine?

Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:30 pm

Engines last about 2 years, before being taken off for overhaul. Aircraft last about 4 years between overhauls
 
Dalmd88
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RE: How Many Times Will A Plane Get A New Engine?

Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:00 pm

Many airline programs don't use hard times for engine changes. They are on condition. Trends in engine performance are closely monitored. Some engines are left on wing for years. Many airframe overhaul cycles have gone to six or eight year intervals. Today Boeing said the 787 will have a 12 year overhaul cycle on the airframe.
 
Planesmart
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RE: How Many Times Will A Plane Get A New Engine?

Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:33 pm

At any one time, an airline may have owned, leased, power by the hour and loaned (from another airline or the manufacturer) engines, on one aircraft (well a 4 engined one ConcordeBoy).

In theory, it would be possible for an airline like Southwest to purchase a new 737 and supply used engines from it's own stocks.

As stated, as engines have become more reliable, maintenance requiring removal, other than at lengthy intervals, has tended to see them stay longer with the original airframe.

However, when a lease ends or an aircraft is sold, it would be extremely unusual for the original engines to be still on it.

An exception might be when aircraft are re-possessed on a less than amicable basis (usually it is amicable), especially if money owing is unlikely to be recovered. The bank/financier may recover the original engines, which in the short-term could ground 3 aircraft.
 
oly720man
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RE: How Many Times Will A Plane Get A New Engine?

Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:21 pm

Something will have to be badly wrong for a brand new engine to be used, I'd have thought. Parts will be replaced during the engine life.

Engine changes will depend on the airline. I read once the Qantas put the most efficient engines in their fleet on the aircraft that flew furthest/most often.

A DL L1011 had an RB211 that was on for years without replacement or any problems (was it 27000 hours or something like that??)
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
greasespot
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RE: How Many Times Will A Plane Get A New Engine?

Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:08 pm

It will not ever get brand new engines.

Every disk from the compressor section to the turbine section has either a hourly life or as Cycle life or both. When this is reached the engine has to be replaced as most disks cannot be changed on wing. Sometimes the first and second stage compressor disks can be done on wing.

The only other things that will make them remove an engine and send it for over haul is a new AD issused, FOD damage, or performance problems. Turbofans are very consistant machines. You can trend engine performance based on N1, N2, Fuel flow and EGT (my job now). If these parameters change you can see it. It can be an indicator of damage or problems.

Engines in the airline fleets are pretty much on condition meaning as long as they are not broken they do not come off.

Two years as stated above is not normal for engines lives. Even our JT8D-XX's last much longer than that. We tend to go 8000 Cycles / 16000 hours between changes. They usually are pulled for FOD or performance problems.

Also note thrust reverse has NO bearing on engine life. Also engine times only count flight times. You can ground run an engine for 16 hours and it will add no cycles or hours to the engine times. However some huskits will drop the life of the Turbine disks on the JT8D-XX depending on the P/N of the disk installed.



GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
ERJ145LR
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RE: How Many Times Will A Plane Get A New Engine?

Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:22 am

What about a plane like the dc9, its so old, so do they still make teh engines for it? What aboul old planes in general?
 
greasespot
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RE: How Many Times Will A Plane Get A New Engine?

Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:53 am

They do not have to make new engines. They only have to make the parts ie; the disks and blades. You cannot buy a 'NEW" JT8D standard though but then you do not have to as the engines can just be overhauled as many times as required. They are the same engines as on the B727 and B737-200. Just a normal JT8D-standard engine.
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
Dalmd88
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RE: How Many Times Will A Plane Get A New Engine?

Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:11 pm

On leased airplanes the original engines are required to be put back on for return to lessor. Yes there is a bunch of swapping going on when planes are getting returned.
 
dl757md
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RE: How Many Times Will A Plane Get A New Engine?

Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:24 pm

Quoting Oly720man (reply 5):
A DL L1011 had an RB211 that was on for years without replacement or any problems (was it 27000 hours or something like that??)


I think it was actually about 24,000 hrs and it was a number 2 (tail) engine. I've heard that a 757 has had an RB211 on wing for over 30,000 hrs. I can't remember the airline. When these super high time engines do come off usually the manufactuer will trade a new one for it and tear it down to figure out what went right.

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Many Times Will A Plane Get A New Engine?

Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:46 am

Quoting Dl757Md (reply 10):
I've heard that a 757 has had an RB211 on wing for over 30,000 hrs. I can't remember the airline.

Can a B757PF carry its own spare Engine on Board as Cargo.Will it fit.
Will it fit on the Cargo Main deck of a B732SF.
regds
MEL
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aogdesk
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RE: How Many Times Will A Plane Get A New Engine?

Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:22 pm

Hawk, a B757PF's main cargo door measures 86x134 (in). I'm reasonably certain that the engine and cradle wouldn't fit (height) and I don't think you'd be able to manipulate the engine lengthwise to get it in. But....some people are pretty damn creative!!!
 
777wt
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RE: How Many Times Will A Plane Get A New Engine?

Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:43 pm

Quoting Dl757Md (reply 10):


That 757 that had a RB211 on it for it's entire lifespan of the aircraft before it's lease expired, it had a yellow painted vertical stab.

RR then took apart the engine and sent the FBO or the airline where it was stationed at most of the time a fan blade on a stand as a "award" for having the longest running hours RR.
 
tepidhalibut
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RE: How Many Times Will A Plane Get A New Engine?

Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:18 pm

>I think it was actually about 24,000 hrs and it was a number 2 (tail) engine. I've heard that a 757 has
>had an RB211 on wing for over 30,000 hrs. I can't remember the airline.

I believe that the operator was Icelandair, and the on-wing time was 40,500 hrs (Nine years !) I suspect that's still the record holder...

http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=99208
 
justplanesmart
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RE: How Many Times Will A Plane Get A New Engine?

Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:23 pm

I remember an advertisement in aviation magazines many years ago touting the reliability of the CFM56 vs. the V2500, proclaiming "We have been flying on wing longer than they have been flying." - a reference to an engine on a Germanair 737-300 that had been in service without removal since before the IAE engine was first put into service.
"So many planes; so little time..."
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Many Times Will A Plane Get A New Engine?

Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:25 pm

Quoting Aogdesk (reply 12):
I'm reasonably certain that the engine and cradle wouldn't fit (height) and I don't think you'd be able to manipulate the engine lengthwise to get it in

So thats certain a B757 cannot carry its own spare Engine on Main deck.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
greasespot
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RE: How Many Times Will A Plane Get A New Engine?

Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:06 pm

Czech owns the recond now and it is for a CFM 56 on a 737. It was on over 41000 hours. Up until last week i had the snecma magazine but tossed it while cleaning my desk so I do not know the exact number. I am sure you can find it on the CFM / Snecma site if you want ot know the exact mumbers. It was not removed for any other reason as the lease was terminated and as part the engine had to go in for O/H as a condition for return.

[Edited 2005-02-24 13:06:55]
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"

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