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HAWK21M
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Checks On B737 Simulator

Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:53 pm

What are the Sequence of steps during B737 Flight Simulator training,How accurate is the reactions.
What are the various Events created.
In brief,What do Pilots do on a Simulator Training.  drool 
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
RightWayUp
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RE: Checks On B737 Simulator

Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:37 pm

Hawk21,
It is a while since I did my initial 737 sim, and bear in mind it tends to differ between companies. I did a full conversion onto the 737-700, then a differences course immediately afterwards onto the -300. There are normally anything between 7-10 4 hour sessions shared between 2 trainees. Also some of the sessions may be performed in a fixed base simulator. The first two or three sessions tend to concentrate on general handling and FMC work. You will practice steep turns, stalls, high speed runs, ILS approaches, non-precision approaches and also button down the preflight preparation. About the fourth session they may start introducing failures, possibly an engine failure (but probably already inflight) and then engine restart. Items to be covered from now until the final check will be rejected takeoff and evacuation, emergency descent, TCAS, windshear, GPWS manoeuvres and system failures. Basically they will try to cover most complex failures. Often you will complete the procedure for one system failure in real time, then be shown other system failures with the sim frozen just to cover all the other types of failure the system can have. For the final 4 sessions you will practice engine failures on takeoff, single eng approaches and go-around interspersed with other system failures. The final 2 sessions normally will cover the final check, which depending on country, will include preflight, taxi-out departure, airways, arrival and then non-precision approach. A takeoff with engine failure, single engine approach and go-around followed by single engine visual approach and landing. At some point a rejected takeoff and evacuation will be thrown in. Then a loft scenario will be flown which is a normal flight, in which a failure occurs. The crew then have to work the problem and bring the flight to a safe conclusion.
Basically the sim is a very good procedures training, the general handling characteristics of the sims can vary greatly from sim to sim, but as most important items are based around a decent instrument scan the feedback of the sim is not that important. In fact the worse the sim the easier it is then to fly the aircraft. The one thing that I believe no sims are good to recreate are landings. Although Base trg can now be done in the sim, and not in the aircraft, there is not enough visual perception to recreate the feel of doing a proper landing, and the sim cannot realistically recreate the atmospheric conditions. I hope this helps and is what you are after.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Checks On B737 Simulator

Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:02 am

Thanks for the details.
Is the List typical or are the Failures simulated by the Examiner randomly.Secondly Can you practice Powerback on a Simulator & how realistic is it.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: Checks On B737 Simulator

Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:46 pm

If the aircraft will powerback, so can the simulator generally. Some older simulators have limited equations of motion which prevent negative velocities being produced so powerback would not work.

Simulator data is provided for normal flight cases, so powerback simulation might not be that realistic.

Regarding the original question, the amount of training and checking that can be done on a simulator depends on its approval level. Level C and D simulators can be used for everything except the line check, including landings of course. The atmosphere is modelled well enough, within the limitations of motion platform excursions.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Checks On B737 Simulator

Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:27 pm

Which would be the most realistic/advanced simulator around these days.
Which Model.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Checks On B737 Simulator

Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:03 am

CAA simulators tend to be the top of the line. Made in Canada. Unfortunately Googling CAA turns up the Civil Aviation Authority
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OPNLguy
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RE: Checks On B737 Simulator

Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:16 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 5):
CAA simulators tend to be the top of the line. Made in Canada. Unfortunately Googling CAA turns up the Civil Aviation Authority

CAE maybe?  Wink

http://www.cae.com/www2004/index.shtml
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: Checks On B737 Simulator

Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:28 am

Not just CAE. There's also Thales in the UK and France making high quality equipment, similarly FlightSafety in the USA, not to mention several smaller companies around the world. CAE and Thales simulators are closely comparable in their quality.

FAA AC 120-40B and JAA JAR-STD 1A standards provide operators with independent quality measures for simulator fidelity. If it meets those standards it will be a high quality sim, regardless of its manufacturer. Older sims are often allowed to retain approval on the original rules they qualified under, so might be of a lower specification in some respects, but equally usable. The rules cover reliability too. A sim which keeps breaking down or is not properly maintained can be downgraded.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Checks On B737 Simulator

Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:50 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 6):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 5):
CAA simulators tend to be the top of the line. Made in Canada. Unfortunately Googling CAA turns up the Civil Aviation Authority

CAE maybe? Wink

http://www.cae.com/www2004/index.shtml

That'll teach me to stay in bed.  Wink Thx OPNLguy!
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Checks On B737 Simulator

Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:20 pm

In terms of experience Which are the most realistic simulators available.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Santhosh
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RE: Checks On B737 Simulator

Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:24 pm

While doing the simulator checks, Will there be any ATC Communications from system operators below?

Regards
George
Happy Landings :)
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: Checks On B737 Simulator

Sun Mar 13, 2005 11:11 pm

Quoting Santhosh (Reply 10):
While doing the simulator checks, Will there be any ATC Communications from system operators below?

The sim instructor usually acts as all outside comm. (maint. and pushback crew/ atc/ co. freq/ etc).

RightWayUp pretty well covered initial /upgrade trg. and on your annual pro. chk. the FAA( in the USA) requires a number of specific manouvers.
1. 2 non-prec. app (vor,adf)
2. CATIII (I believe a miss is req'd too)
3. V1 cut
4. RTO
5. handflown eng. out to CATI mins
6. 2-eng out with a visual or no G/S ldg.
7. max. x-wind ldg
8. steep turns( 45 deg. left and right)
9. Stalls
10. cockpit set up malf.
11. eng. start malf.
12. A/C evac

On the other 6mo sim event most of the same things are covered along with "hot topics". For eg. GPS app., eng. out dept. from Hong Kong, cargo fire etc.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Checks On B737 Simulator

Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:29 pm

Any Pics of the Inside of the Simulator on A.Net.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Checks On B737 Simulator

Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:26 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 12):
Any Pics of the Inside of the Simulator on A.Net.

Plenty. Just write "simulator" in the text search field.


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I flew a CAE 767 that was probably 15 years old. The graphics were quite dated but the environment and the motion make it very easy to suspend disbelief.
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Santhosh
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RE: Checks On B737 Simulator

Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:04 am

Does the simulation software have the entire world’s scenery like the Microsoft Flight Simulator or it has just a few selections of major airports. Also is it possible for the operators to set infinite types of weather setting or just a few different preset types weather combination?

Regards
George
Happy Landings :)
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Checks On B737 Simulator

Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:52 am

Quoting Santhosh (Reply 14):
Does the simulation software have the entire world’s scenery like the Microsoft Flight Simulator or it has just a few selections of major airports.

Saying that FS has the entire world is too kind  Wink It does not really have it all in details. I'm not sure about the simulators, but I guess it depends on the facility. SAS Flight Academy trains many airlines around the world so they would need all the airport they could conceivaly fly to.

Quoting Santhosh (Reply 14):
Also is it possible for the operators to set infinite types of weather setting or just a few different preset types weather combination?

Modern sims can do very detailed simulation, with any kind of weather. Older sims (20+ years?) not so much.
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Jetlagged
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RE: Checks On B737 Simulator

Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:18 am

Newer simulators will have a worldwide navigation database, but not visual scenery for each airport. They usually only have custom scenes for the most used airports, as visual scenes are expensive to buy and keep up to date. Generic airport models are used for the rest.

Older sims have nav database limits so only have regions where training will be done.

Weather simulation varies too. A Level D sim must have fully co-ordinated weather modelling, so storms appearing in the weather radar must be correctly located in the visual scene. All sims can vary temp, press, wind, turbulence, etc. Most have windshear and microburst models. Visibility can be controlled, as can cloud layers, fog, runway conditions, etc. There's plenty of variables for the instructor to use. Generally preset scenarios or lesson plans are used to save set up time and give repeatability.
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