Thrust
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737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:41 pm

I am not protesting against Boeing removing the eyebrow windows above the 737 cockpit...it gives it a bold new look. My question is why are they doing it?
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SATL382G
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:03 pm

Lots of threads on this subject in the database. Unfortunately search is seriously broke at the moment....

Basically it's a component that is no longer needed and which costs $$ to operate and maintain.
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Starlionblue
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:07 pm

I'm not sure I remember this but I think eyebrow windows can be used to take navigational fixes from stars (including the sun). This is not done much anymore.
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air2gxs
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:13 pm

Eyebrow windows existed, for the most part, for traffic avoidance. With TCAS, ADS-B and all the other enhancments made to aircraft to prevent collision, why bother? Windows are expensive and need to be maintained. It's easier to manufacture an airframe without windows than with.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:26 pm

That sounds more reasonably. But didn't jurassic jetliners have a navigator window in the cockpit roof?
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SlamClick
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:45 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (reply 2):
I'm not sure I remember this but I think eyebrow windows can be used to take navigational fixes from stars (including the sun). This is not done much anymore.


I seriously doubt this as they distorted badly when looking through them at any angle other than 90o/90o/.

Early DC-9 had larger eyebrows, but they still had a provision to cut a periscope sextant into the cabin roof in the forward galley area. Some of them had a compass rose mounted on the fuselage frames in that area, hidden away above the headliner.

edit: Besides, the NG which do not have the eyebrows were designed in the GPS era. I doubt that anyone on the project was thinking celestial nav. The US Naval academy no longer even teaches it.

[Edited 2005-03-08 15:47:10]
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A350
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:10 am

I just don't understand why the eyebrows weren't already eliminated at the beginning of the NG-series.

Will all new 737s be w/o eyebrows?

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Starlionblue
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:21 am

The US Naval academy no longer even teaches it.

That's disgraceful. What will they do when asked to deploy in space, which might well happen within the careers of midshipmen today? No GPS in space (yet). Yes I am (half-) serious. Whew, had to get that off my chest Big grin


I just don't understand why the eyebrows weren't already eliminated at the beginning of the NG-series.

My guess is that in this, as in everything else, Boeing continues to be a very conservative airframe manufacturer.
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flyer737sw
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Wed Mar 09, 2005 6:16 am

I personally think the 73 looks better without them...Makes the plane look more stealth like...

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Thrust
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:49 pm

Was glare another reason why the eyebrows were eliminated? Certainly less sunlight can enter the cockpit without the eyebrow windows...also does it save weight to remove the eyebrows?
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Boeing7E7
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:28 am



Quoting A350 (Reply 6):
Will all new 737s be w/o eyebrows?

From this point forward, yes. They will not have the eyebrows.
 
redflyer
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:01 am

I read a while back that pilots like the eyebrow windows as it gives them a view on steep banks while in a decent, e.g., turning short final.
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2H4
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:55 pm



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 11):
I read a while back that pilots like the eyebrow windows as it gives them a view on steep banks while in a decent, e.g., turning short final.

I've heard the same from 717 and 737 pilots.


I'm still waiting to hear if the lack of eyebrow windows reduces the noise level in the cockpit, and if so, how much.


2H4


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OPNLguy
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:14 pm

>>>I'm still waiting to hear if the lack of eyebrow windows reduces the noise level in the cockpit, and if so, how much.

In all, I've spoken with 6 different pilots who have flown N201WN, N202SW, or N203SW, and they have all said the cockpit is indeed quieter. It's not the lack of eyebrow windows that does it, it's the addition of the 10 vortex generators that they added on these aircraft, just aft of where the radome meets the fuselage...
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2H4
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:21 pm

Thanks, OPNLguy! Do you know if operators will be given the option to add the vortex generators to their existing 737's?


2H4


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OPNLguy
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:58 pm

>>>Do you know if operators will be given the option to add the vortex generators to their existing 737's?

From what I've heard, yes (and kits for plugging the eyebrow windows as well), but since these are not "revenue-producing" enhancements, I don't think there will be alot of demand for them until industry conditions improve...
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2H4
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:03 pm

Maybe the pilots will each chip in $50 for a quieter work environment...  biggrin 


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OPNLguy
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:55 pm

>>>Maybe the pilots will each chip in $50 for a quieter work environment...

$50 times 5,000 pilots is only $250,000, which would maybe do a handful (or two) of aircraft, versus the 425 aircraft fleet. Maybe $50 per month?  Wink
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Thrust
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:32 pm

Wait..OPNL guy, is the first 737 with eyebrow windows N201WN, or N201LV....I'm really confused because I've heard it called by both registrations
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wing
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:08 pm

read a while back that pilots like the eyebrow windows as it gives them a view on steep banks while in a decent, e.g., turning short final.

If you are seeing the runway from your eyebrow window in a turn to window ;you've already overshooted it.Its not a proper way to turn finals.Besides there are sunshades and various other sunblocking materials stuck in it which makes it imposibble to see from that windows anyway.
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OPNLguy
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:49 am

>>>Wait..OPNL guy, is the first 737 with eyebrow windows N201WN, or N201LV

It was first referred to internally (incorrecty) as "WN" and it is indeed a "LV". The norm here is "SW", followed by "WN" and then other little oddballs, and I forgot this was one of those...  embarrassed 
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Silver1SWA
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:27 am

After about a month of some very patient waiting on my part, I FINALLY saw N201LV. Not only that, but N202WN came in shortly after. I finally got my pics of eye-brow-less 737s. Big grin I will upload them shortly...hopefully they get through.

I must say they do look sharp without them.
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HAWK21M
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:54 am

Quoting A350 (Reply 6):
ill all new 737s be w/o eyebrows

Yes Since they have started production minus the Eyebrow windows.

Quoting Thrust (Reply 9):
Certainly less sunlight can enter the cockpit without the eyebrow windows...

Yes that would be a relief,less use of Newspapers  Smile

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 12):
I'm still waiting to hear if the lack of eyebrow windows reduces the noise level in the cockpit, and if so, how much.

I dont think it would.Although the reports of Pilots as per posts say they do.

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 13):
it's the addition of the 10 vortex generators that they added on these aircraft

Why exactly were these Vortex generators installed & why optional.
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OPNLguy
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:11 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 22):
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 13):
it's the addition of the 10 vortex generators that they added on these aircraft

Why exactly were these Vortex generators installed & why optional.

They were added to re-direct airflow and reduce cockpit noise, and they seem to do just that. They are now standard equipment on the NGs (along with the lack of eyebrow windows). Reportly, kits will be available (at some point) to add vortex generators to those that don't have them, and plug existing eyebrow windows, but I haven't heard when.
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HAWK21M
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:43 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 23):
Reportly, kits will be available (at some point) to add vortex generators to those that don't have them, and plug existing eyebrow windows, but I haven't heard when.

Are these kits compatiable for the classics too.
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OPNLguy
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:31 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 24):
Are these kits compatiable for the classics too.

I would assume so, since it's a pretty low-tech modification installation-wise, but we'll have to wait and see....
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HAWK21M
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:20 pm

Can anyone confirm if the Eyebrow blankings + Vortex Generators kit are Available on the Classics.
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Jetlagged
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:26 am

Nice Boeing is reducing the noise for the drivers. Wish they'd do something to reduce the noise in the cabin of the NG for us self loading cargo. The electrical hums and whines are much louder than in the Classic.
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HAWK21M
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:09 pm

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 27):
Wish they'd do something to reduce the noise in the cabin of the NG for us self loading cargo. The electrical hums and whines are much louder than in the Classic

Thats where cargo is so Peaceful.
 Smile
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KIGuy52
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:40 pm

Probably the same reason they no longer put ashtrays in most new cars. It's cheaper. The manufacturers say it's because nowdays most people don't smoke, which may be true, but where am I supposed to put all my spare change?
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:05 am

Quoting KIGuy52 (Reply 29):
The manufacturers say it's because nowdays most people don't smoke, which may be true, but where am I supposed to put all my spare change?

Ahh, those good ole unintended consequences. Just like using eyebrow windows for paperwork storage.

I saw the front of N201LV the other day, did a double take - expecting to see eyebrows.
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HAWK21M
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RE: 737 Why No More Eyebrow Windows?

Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:09 pm

Any news on Blankings Available to replace the #4 & 5 windows [Eyebrow Windows].
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MEL
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