skywatch
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Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:40 pm

I keep a pretty close eye on air traffic over my house. I noticed that just about every airline that flies over (American, Southwest, ASA, Skywest, Frontier, FedEx, and Airborne) do not have their tail logo lights on. Because of this, only the front half of the plane is illuminated. However, Continental from EWR flew over last night, and he had his logo lights on. The entire aircraft was lit up. What is the reason for some airlines using these lights, and some not?
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bravo7e7
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:11 am

I believe some airlines dont use them to save money.
 
Newark777
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:51 am

It is up to the pilot when the tail light is on or off. What altitude were the planes flying at? I have noticed that they tend to be turned off at around 10,000 feet or so.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
AirWillie6475
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:59 am

The tail lights are most useful on the ground so the tower and other pilots can see the type of plane. Otherwise they are pretty useless. I have never seen a Southwest with the tail light on.
 
skywatch
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:21 am

These aircraft that I am referring to are at 5000ft. or so. Usually ten minutes outside of the airport(AUS).
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EMBQA
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:29 am

Several reasons.....many newer aircraft do not have them installed, or they have been removed and many airlines do not turn them on until on the ground.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
flyer737sw
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:33 am

Thats interesting...Almost every 737-NG that comes into SJC has there tail light on...Ever since that last thread regarding this issue, it seemed that more pilots are using the lights...Still haven't seen a 300 with them on though...

Kevin
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:36 am

If they are installed they´ll have to be servicable or deferred with a time limit as per MEL. Now getting up there to change a light bulb typically requires a cherry picker (access is often from the bottom of the horizontal stab, exception B737 with the logo lights in the wing tips). So they create some maintenance issues. As a result masny airlines decide to deactivate them permanently and removing them from the MEL.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:54 am

At SQ, the SOP for logo lights is they're turned off during the climb passing 10,000' and on the descent turned on as you're descending through 10,000'.

And MD11Engineer is certainly correct about MEL relief if the logo lights are u/s. At SQ, they're generally serviced when the aircraft passes through SIN.
Fly fast, live slow
 
dairbus
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:18 am

ASA deactivated the logo lights on their CRJ's for maintenance reasons as MD11Engineer mentioned. They are located on the engine strut and vibration from the engine made the bulbs burn out on a regular basis.
"I love mankind. It's people I can't stand." - Charles Shultz
 
airgeek12
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:57 pm

Most likely to save power/money or something. I would imagine once they get above FL100 or something they would shut it off since no one's going to be seeing it anyways.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:01 pm

How Reliable are these logo lights,from frequent Alignment/Fusing problems.
Secondly the logo lts can be C/F under MEL.
Thirdly it would be more noticeable on the Grd or at a lower Altitude.
I think most Airlines want to save Money & hence opt out of the Logo light & its support equipment.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
AvionicMech
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:54 am

Logo lights getting deferred.  Big grin You must be having a laugh, whenever we get an aircraft in the hangar there is quite often 4 burnt out logo lights with no sign of anything in the tech log. This is mainly because it is not an important part and I think the MEL only gives a 10 day restriction which could be a bit tight, so they are usually seen to be working when on the line. The trouble with the 757/767 is that the logo light filaments are replaced from on top of the stab which is even worse than on the 737NG which is from a panel underneath the stab.
 
cheekie747girl
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:49 am

Quoting AvionicMech (Reply 12):
Logo lights getting deferred

I whole-heartedly agree! They are nasty and time consuming things to change, fortunately on more than a 10 day interval for my company!! (and are usually deffered to the safer confines of the hangar).

They are not so bad however on a bright sunny day when time is not an issue, and one can catch a few rays and admire the unique view from the stab  Cool
Big Boeing Birds are Best
 
troubleshooter
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:09 pm

On the ERJ, I work on, it´s a MEL D item. So we have up to 120 days to fix it. Its a real sh!t. I believe first the took the lamp, then they installed the two wires and then the horizontal stabilizer was riveted around. You need a gynaecologists fingers to attach the wires to the lamp.   

[Edited 2005-03-22 07:12:45]
This job sucks!!! I love this job!!!
 
AvionicMech
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:00 am

I am pretty certain our aircraft aren't on a 10 day restriction to be honest but I am sure it is less than 120 days but I don't know for sure without looking it up.

On the 757/767 they are easy to change apart from when the terminals fall off in your hand due to corrosion and need a new one crimped on which means a trip down to get the terminals and tools needed then back up again to cut your hands on all the broken glass from previous filaments that have cracked and fallen apart.  Angry
 
LMP737
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:23 am

We had logo lights on our 737-800 when we first got them. However as time went on they started to become a pain and the decision was made to deactivate the system. Can't say that I miss changing those lights out.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
AvionicMech
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:21 am

I am actually the opposite to you LMP as I find the logo lights really easy to change on the -800 as you can get to them from underneath the stab and there is only two to burn out as opposed to 4 on the 757/767. Also with them being halogen filaments on the -800 as opposed to regular sealed beam lamps they dont seem to burn out as much.

Now the worst lights to change have to be the red and the green nav lights on a -800 with winglets as you have to remove the whole of the lens assembly which is held in with quite a few screws. It is such a pain to do that the AMM actually recommends changing both filaments while you have it out. This is only the aircraft fitted with Aviation Partners Boeing winglets as I have never worked on one with the Boeing factory fit winglets but I doubt they are very much better.
 
aogdesk
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:27 pm

5X deactivated logo lights because they were a pain in the butt and they cost too much money with no return.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:49 pm

I just love the jokers who on big checks put sealant around the access panels for nav lights!  Angry
I think they are the same guys who force all these panel screws with the worn recess back in! $$%&§

Most nav light repairs on the 727 are very easy:

You are sitting in your truck, waiting for departure. The F/E comes back from his walkaround and tells you that a wing tip nav light isn´t working. You ask him to show you which and walk with him to the offending light. There you´ll take the rubber traffic cone from the tarmac under the wing tip and give the wingtip a good whack with it, and enjoy the shocked look on the F/E´s face. And ... Bingo, the light is on again. Big grin
The reason is that the contacts in the lightbulb fitting tend to oxydise on this design. The vibrations from the whack break down the oxyde layer and the current can flow again!
Only if the whack doesn´t help you´ll get out the ladder and the screw driver to change the bulb. In 99% of all cases it is then at fault (burned through), in the one percent left, it is the lightbulb fitting.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
skywatch
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:45 pm

MD11Engineer: I like that remedy! BEFORE all else fails, give it a nice whack!
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:45 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 19):
. There you´ll take the rubber traffic cone from the tarmac under the wing tip and give the wingtip a good whack with it, and enjoy the shocked look on the F/E´s face. And ... Bingo, the light is on again

I guess Its very common & Effective  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
troubleshooter
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:31 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 19):
There you´ll take the rubber traffic cone from the tarmac under the wing tip and give the wingtip a good whack with it

The same applies to the BAe146/RJ. I call it the "standby function"...  banghead 
This job sucks!!! I love this job!!!
 
Dalmd88
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:15 am

I can see the log book entry now; 'Malletized light assy. Ops chk good.' On a serious note, the Logo lights are also pretty expensive bulbs, which is another factor in removing them.
 
amtrosie
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:56 am

On my corporate 737-200. The Big Boss loves them on/working,while the whole flight dept. doesn't. The locals have already taken some shots at us with a shotgun when we come in late(r) at night. We even had one drunk redneck show up at the airport waving his shotgun around!! Whoever said this job was boring?
 
LMP737
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:46 am

Quoting AvionicMech (Reply 17):
I am actually the opposite to you LMP as I find the logo lights really easy to change on the -800 as you can get to them from underneath the stab and there is only two to burn out as opposed to 4 on the 757/767. Also with them being halogen filaments on the -800 as opposed to regular sealed beam lamps they dont seem to burn out as much.

Changing them out is not that big a deal. It's just having to grab a maintenance stand and then hoping the guy who changed it out before you did not put worn out fasteners back in. Logo lights are one of those nice to have things. Nice to have but don't really need them.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:02 am

AM and MX certainly love love to show off their asses. I've never seen them fly with their logo lights of below 10000ft. Heck, I think their being kind to us spotters.  Big grin
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:27 pm

Quoting Amtrosie (Reply 23):
The locals have already taken some shots at us with a shotgun when we come in late(r) at night. We even had one drunk redneck show up at the airport waving his shotgun around!! Whoever said this job was boring?

Which place is this. Afghanistan  Smile
Whats the Corporate B732 look like from Inside.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:27 pm

Quoting Amtrosie (Reply 23):
The locals have already taken some shots at us with a shotgun when we come in late(r) at night. We even had one drunk redneck show up at the airport waving his shotgun around!! Whoever said this job was boring?

Which place is this. Afghanistan  Smile
Whats the Corporate B732 look like from Inside.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
L-188
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:38 am

Quoting Amtrosie (Reply 23):
On my corporate 737-200. The Big Boss loves them on/working,while the whole flight dept. doesn't. The locals have already taken some shots at us with a shotgun when we come in late(r) at night. We even had one drunk redneck show up at the airport waving his shotgun around!! Whoever said this job was boring?

I didn't know Wal-mart had a corperate airplane.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:29 am

Walmart has a whole fleet of aicraft, operated like an airline.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
AvionicMech
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:15 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 24):
It's just having to grab a maintenance stand and then hoping the guy who changed it out before you did not put worn out fasteners back in.

Well I guess that is the advantage of still living in the cocoon of the cozy warm hangar as opposed to the ramp, we have mobile platforms and air powered tools to make life easier.
 
CRJ200Mechanic
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:16 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 18):
give the wingtip a good whack

Have had to do that several times. The lower tail nav light on the CRJ is notorious for going out. If it has been changed before and the cover doesn't get resealed it fills with water. take the lower screw out to drain the water and then I get my persuasion device, also referred to as my maglight, and give a whack. I often get flight crews that ask me what I did to get it to come back on without changing the bulb. I tell them that I persuaded it. The answer I always get back is. I don't want to know, just sign it off.
Always remember the responsibilies you hold with an A&P license
 
LMP737
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:22 am

Quoting AvionicMech (Reply 30):
Well I guess that is the advantage of still living in the cocoon of the cozy warm hangar as opposed to the ramp, we have mobile platforms and air powered tools to make life easier.

You haven't lived until you have had to push a work stand through a foot of snow at 2:00AM.  Wink
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
amtrosie
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:01 am

Hawk,
No not Afghanistan, and am glad it isn't. Hats off to those over in that part of the world though. The interior is full corporate, 28 pax max, with seats/couches and two seats in crew rest area. The fwd F/A station was left as was (except for "sprucing" up). We have a G-II for smaller stuff, with NO logo lt. on it.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:11 pm

Amtrosie......Any Pics.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
ba299
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:34 pm

At BA we use logo lights when we are on the ground to show that "the speedbirds are here"... In some airspace (such as gulf area) we turn on it as required by notams to allow better identification during the night. About the MEL logo lights are a D item so we to fix it within 120 days.
Talking about money saving I think that the airlines have to find better solution to save money...
 
AvionicMech
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:57 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 32):
You haven't lived until you have had to push a work stand through a foot of snow at 2:00AM.

Well in that case LMP737, I don't think I really want to live. Big grin That is one big advantage of living in the UK though, that is that we don't get as much snow if any at all, as you guys from the northern states of the US, and Canada but we just replace it with weather that doesn't get either very hot or very cold it just sits in the middle most of the year.

I looked it up at work and our logos are a CAT D item aswell so I guess I must have been thinking of something else that has a shorter than expected deferral period.
 
amtrosie
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:37 am

Hawk,
There are some pics in this photo data base. I will try to show them...computers still throw me spinning.  banghead 
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Europix

 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:55 pm

Thanks for the Pics.But I was talking about Interiors/Cabin etc.
 Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
amtrosie
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:31 am

Nothing from me. I am not that technologically advanced. However, the fact that $11.0 million was spent on the interior, gives you an idea. It rivals a 727 corporate I worked that was extravagant with gold platting, paintings, etc. It was owned by a Middle-East individual.
 
Accidentally
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:11 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 38):
Thanks for the Pics.But I was talking about Interiors/Cabin etc

How's this?

http://www.williegary.com/plane.html
Indianapolis, IN
 
Accidentally
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:14 pm

Gary Unveils Newest Member of His Law Firm’s Fleet – Custom 32-passenger Boeing 737

Willie E. Gary unveiled the newest member of his air fleet – “Wings of Justice II,” a custom-designed, 32-passenger Boeing 737 that will be used to conduct business throughout the United States and beyond.

The aircraft, which sports an interior renovation that cost more than $11 million, includes an 18-karat gold sink, plush leather seats, carpet, a $1.2 million sound system, and a full-service kitchen.

“Wings II” provides the Gary law firm with the ability to handle cases throughout the United States. Gary and his partners will continue using “Wings of Justice I” – the law firm’s Gulfstream II Jet, which has been flying since 1996.

“This aircraft allows us to better serve our clients,” Gary said. “We can meet with people in Atlanta, Chicago and Carolina the same day and still be home for dinner. The plane is equipped with a conference table, an office, a bedroom and a full-service kitchen.”

The high-flying attorney is best known for his battles against Corporate America. His $500 million verdict against a Canadian Funeral Home company still ranks among the highest jury verdicts ever awarded.

In 2000, Gary won $240 million on behalf of his clients when a jury found that Disney stole their idea for a sports complex. And in 2001, Gary received a $139 million verdict against Anheuser-Busch on behalf of the family of baseball great Roger Maris.
Indianapolis, IN
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why No Logo Lights On Most Flights?

Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:22 pm

Fantastic Interiors  Smile
Looks good.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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