singel09
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:32 pm

Pilot Colourblind

Thu May 12, 2005 5:49 pm

A friend of mine has been flying the with KLM for 9 years, recently on the MD-11. He is colourblind. Now, since KLM merged with Air France, both airlines share policy. Appearently, colourblindness is not allowed with Air France, so he is told hat he will not be flying long anymore, eg, fired.

Is that possible at all?

What are the rules for colour blindness with other airlines?

Thanks !

Mause
 
futureuapilot
Posts: 1329
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 7:50 am

RE: Pilot Colourblind

Thu May 12, 2005 8:32 pm

I have a friend at my highschool that is color blind, luckly, when it comes to Aviation, he's as dumb as a dead bat, so I don't think we really need to worry about his future... I don't think it should matter if your color blind or not, most people can still tell the Runway from the grass.

-Sam
The Pilot is the highest form of life on Earth!
 
geoffm
Posts: 2082
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:58 am

RE: Pilot Colourblind

Thu May 12, 2005 8:44 pm

Quoting FutureUApilot (Reply 1):
I don't think it should matter if your color blind or no

Without knowing what sort of colour blindness, and assuming red/green (the most common colour blindness)... So are the wheels locked down (green) or not (red)? Are those red and green lights in the distance a plane going away from us or toward us? I guess no, it doesn't matter!

Geoff M.

[Edited 2005-05-12 13:46:00]
 
Glom
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:38 am

RE: Pilot Colourblind

Thu May 12, 2005 8:59 pm

Why is that the airline's business? If he has a JAR class 1, what more needs to be said?
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Pilot Colourblind

Thu May 12, 2005 9:02 pm

Quoting Geoffm (Reply 2):
Without knowing what sort of colour blindness, and assuming red/green (the most common colour blindness)... So are the wheels locked down (green) or not (red)? Are those red and green lights in the distance a plane going away from us or toward us? I guess no, it doesn't matter!

Correctomundo, Every FAA flight physical I've ever had has included a color blind test. Watch for the results of the FEDEX crash at TLH and you'll find the f/o had some colorblindness which possibly affected him seeing the VASI. There are varied degrees and that's why the FAA medical includes blues, oranges and greens.
 
Glom
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:38 am

RE: Pilot Colourblind

Thu May 12, 2005 9:13 pm

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 4):
Every FAA flight physical I've ever had has included a color blind test.

The CAA do the test at the initial and then leave it there since colour vision is congenital and therefore doesn't change.
 
Glom
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:38 am

RE: Pilot Colourblind

Thu May 12, 2005 9:18 pm

Quoting Singel09 (Thread starter):
He is colourblind.

What level are we talking?
 
N766UA
Posts: 7843
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: Pilot Colourblind

Fri May 13, 2005 10:59 am

I'm red green color blind. I'm a private pilot and I hold a 3rd class medical. I can easily distinguish aviation green/white/red/amber... it's more colors like purple I have trouble with (can't see the red in it.. looks like blue). Thus, I can get a SODA if I need to in order to get a 1st class medical and fly for the airlines. As for actually getting hired, we shall see... but the FAA will let me fly. I guess it all depends on to what degree one is color blind, but it's nowhere near as big a deal here in the US as it used to.
This Website Censors Me
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Pilot Colourblind

Fri May 13, 2005 11:26 am

Quoting Glom (Reply 5):
The CAA do the test at the initial and then leave it there since colour vision is congenital and therefore doesn't change.

Yea, that's a little of a joke here 'cause if you don't have it you won't get it SO I often make up numbers on the test just to get their attention.LOL
 
Glom
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:38 am

RE: Pilot Colourblind

Sat May 14, 2005 12:09 am

Is this really a major deal? Do airlines regularly exclude certified pilots by imposing arbitrarily higher medical standards?
 
geoffm
Posts: 2082
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:58 am

RE: Pilot Colourblind

Sat May 14, 2005 1:33 am

Quoting Glom (Reply 9):
Do airlines regularly exclude certified pilots by imposing arbitrarily higher medical standards?

It's the same in any industry. The CAA/FAA set minimum standards and airlines can either meet those standards or better them.

Geoff M.
 
Glom
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:38 am

RE: Pilot Colourblind

Sat May 14, 2005 1:37 am

So do they? Would a colour safe person have difficulty getting a job with an airline because of it?
 
Pihero
Posts: 4196
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:11 am

RE: Pilot Colourblind

Sat May 14, 2005 9:42 am

As far as I know,since a pilot gets a class one and therefore keeps his licence valid, no airline has the right to impose a stricter medical requirement than the JAR FCL .
The airline's position would be totally indefensible in court.
Singel09, could you give us more info on that case ?

I personally know of several cases of mild colour blindness who couldn't qualify for class one.
So they got a waiver for class two and went on flying with a private pilot licence...they went up with a CPL, then IR...and due to their experience,got a class one with what the french call a Derogation.
So you see,there's is something smelly in your story.
Regards
Contrail designer
 
Glom
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:38 am

RE: Pilot Colourblind

Sat May 14, 2005 5:05 pm

I was thinking that Pihero. I know that airlines have stricter standards for sponsorship programs, but that's because they want to make sure you're worth the investment, hence you should have a long shelf life, but I don't think colour vision should matter since it doesn't change.
 
Pihero
Posts: 4196
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:11 am

RE: Pilot Colourblind

Sat May 14, 2005 9:24 pm

Hello,
For your info,this is the JAR text on vision requirements.

http://www2.hin.ch/sog/JAR-FCL3.htm

As you can see, some degree of "colour blindness " is quite acceptable to the FCL authorities.
Once again, if a pilot with a current licence adheres to this requirements,there is no way an employer could deny hom the job, especially with the experience he's shown.
Pilots' unions wouls have a field day defending him.

Regards.
Contrail designer
 
User avatar
longhauler
Posts: 4950
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

RE: Pilot Colourblind

Sat May 14, 2005 9:49 pm

I am colour blind, and have been flying transport aircraft for longer than I care to admit! However, to attain the Airline Transport Pilot Licence, I had to undergo a "lantern test". I had to be able to tell a red light from a green light from a white light. I was able, and thus attained the licence.

Perhaps I am not as colour blind as some, as I have heard that some colour blind individuals can NOT tell these colour lights apart.

I was told by the individual performing the test for me at Transport Canada headquarters, that the colour blind "rule" came into effect during war times, so during a dogfight you can tell enemy aircraft from friendly aircraft!!!!
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Pilot Colourblind

Sat May 14, 2005 10:00 pm

Quoting LongHauler (Reply 15):
I was told by the individual performing the test for me at Transport Canada headquarters, that the colour blind "rule" came into effect during war times, so during a dogfight you can tell enemy aircraft from friendly aircraft!!!!

Not trying to be picky but for the sake of the conversation that's a good point however most enemy a/c were identified by shape not much colors. However during WW11 there were alot more light signals used thus the importance of good color vision. Good luck to you.

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