stlrj
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Which Synthetic Oil Was Used On The L 1011?

Tue May 31, 2005 2:25 am

Looking at photos of smokey startups on the L-1011 got me thinking of what brand synthetic oil they use. Is it Exxon, Shell or Mobil and does it make a difference?

I noticed a maintenance truck parked next to a 737 had several cases of Mobil oil in back so I assume that's the brand they use.

Cheers,

Joe
 
B747FE
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RE: Which Synthetic Oil Was Used On The L 1011?

Tue May 31, 2005 3:57 am

Quoting Stlrj (Thread starter):
Looking at photos of smokey startups on the L-1011 got me thinking of what brand synthetic oil they use. Is it Exxon, Shell or Mobil and does it make a difference?

AeroShell Turbine Oil 555 and Exxon Turbo Oil 25 were certified for use in RR RB211-524B4, probably in -22B too.There are several interchangeable types that fulfill the same specification, so I don't think the brand make any difference.
Hope this help.

Regards,
B747FE.
"Flying is more than a sport and more than a job; flying is pure passion and desire, which fill a lifetime"
 
VC-10
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RE: Which Synthetic Oil Was Used On The L 1011?

Tue May 31, 2005 4:25 am

It makes no difference. Generally oils are intermixable if you don't have the brand the company specify
 
air2gxs
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RE: Which Synthetic Oil Was Used On The L 1011?

Tue May 31, 2005 5:31 am

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 2):
It makes no difference. Generally oils are intermixable if you don't have the brand the company specify

I'd be very careful using a blanket statement like that. Even though the spec may be the same (MIL-PRF-2399?), mixing the oils can still cause undesirable effects. Usually you'll notice some coking in the filters after some time. We as a rule do not mix oils. I believe the AMM (all our types) is very clear on the issue.

It being a holiday, I happen to be home, but on call, and do not have the pertinent AMM references.

I seem to recall DAL used Exxon 2380 on the L1011.
 
VC-10
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RE: Which Synthetic Oil Was Used On The L 1011?

Tue May 31, 2005 6:42 am

Quoting Air2gxs (Reply 3):
I'd be very careful using a blanket statement like that

That is why I used the word 'generally'. Generally you can use different brands of the same spec oil to 'get you home'. I am not suggesting you go around putting in Exxon at one station, ASTO at another & Mobil at the next station.
 
air2gxs
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RE: Which Synthetic Oil Was Used On The L 1011?

Tue May 31, 2005 11:12 am

Sorry VC10, but your post certainly does imply that oils can be intermixed, with no penalty. I guess "It makes no difference" threw me.
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: Which Synthetic Oil Was Used On The L 1011?

Tue May 31, 2005 11:55 am

Quoting Air2gxs (Reply 3):
I seem to recall DAL used Exxon 2380 on the L1011.

Correct
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
TimT
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RE: Which Synthetic Oil Was Used On The L 1011?

Tue May 31, 2005 1:54 pm

TWA used Exxon 2380 in their RB211-22B's. If I remember, Hawaiian used ETO-25 in the same engine.
 
gt1
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RE: Which Synthetic Oil Was Used On The L 1011?

Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:31 am

Lets see if I can add something useful to this discussion:

Stlrj asks about the oil used in the L10 and about the smoky starts, suggesting that the smoke is a function of the oil. If I'm not mistaken, the smoky starts had more to due with the fuel being introduced into the combustion chamber than with the engine oil. Seems like the FFR (fuel flow regulator) and the Start FFR had something to do with it. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Then there is the question of engine oil intermixability. The AMM and the operators policy manual is usually going to be fairly strict in putting in a certain brand of oil, and changing the oil at the next maintenance visit if the wrong brand of oil is serviced. The funny part is, the currently accepted method of changing from one type of oil to another is the "top off" method. Which means you simply stop servicing the old type oil and just start "topping off" with the new type oil. The biggest problems have been found to have been created when all new oil is added to an in-service (internally dirty) engine. The detergent level of new oil is greater than old oil, so the fresh oil loosens all the carbon, which ends up plugging the filter.

On the other hand, Sunstrand is very picky about what type/brand oil you put in their IDG, and if they find you used an un-approved oil, they will not honor the warranty. That will be $250,000 please!!!! And all MIL-L-23699 oils are NOT approved either!!!!!
 
TimT
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RE: Which Synthetic Oil Was Used On The L 1011?

Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:14 pm

I'll add a little more- the smokey starts were in part due to the type of bearing cavity seals used in the Rolls-Royce engines on the L-1011. The seals are a carbon ring with a steel plate that was held in place by engine air. The bearing cavity would contan some oil after shutdown, and sometimes after the air bled off the seal plate would lose the static grip (not sure how to describe it) on the carbon seal, allowing the trapped oil to escape to the opposite side of the seal. When started, the airflow will pickup that oil and pass on throughout the engine and be burned in combustion. I know in the test cell at TWA, sometimes after an engine run, if the fan was rotated, almost a quart of oil would drop from the #1 bearing and run out into the inlet case.
 
air2gxs
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RE: Which Synthetic Oil Was Used On The L 1011?

Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:36 pm

Quoting Gt1 (Reply 8):
The funny part is, the currently accepted method of changing from one type of oil to another is the "top off" method.

I've been involved in changing oil types in engines and I know we didn't just top-off. We drained the oil, changed the filter, ran the engine, changed the oil and filter and then opened a deferral to do it again 10 days (hours?, can't recall) later.
 
B747FE
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RE: Which Synthetic Oil Was Used On The L 1011?

Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:01 am

Quoting Gt1 (Reply 8):
Seems like the FFR (fuel flow regulator) and the Start FFR had something to do with it. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Perhaps, but a Starting Fuel Flow Regulator with the enrichment flow setting, out of calibration would show also increased EGT during light up. Regarding oil change, Top Off method is just a recommendation by some oil manufacturers, during change to a different brand, in order to avoid the impact of a swelling action change in the O'rings.




Quoting TimT (Reply 9):
and sometimes after the air bled off the seal plate would lose the static grip (not sure how to describe it) on the carbon seal, allowing the trapped oil to escape to the opposite side of the seal.

Oil leaks from the bearing compartments due to sealing pressure reduced can also cause smoke in the exhaust right after shutdown.

Regards,
B747FE.
"Flying is more than a sport and more than a job; flying is pure passion and desire, which fill a lifetime"
 
gt1
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RE: Which Synthetic Oil Was Used On The L 1011?

Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:57 am

I'll stand corrected on the smoky starts, it was the oil. Must be I've killed too many brain cells.

B747FE, I'll accept that, and change my wording to recommendation next time. I do know of two major airlines that have changed oil types in recent years, and just used the top-off method, and one of their stated reasons was to prevent plugged filters also.

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