aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

Too Hot To Land?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:43 am

Was coming home from business DCA-DFW-AUS and I overheard a AA flight attendant that was deadheading home from DFW talking about a EWR trip she just worked and she was really upset over the delays she had on her segments. She mentioned to the other f/a deadheading home that it was too hot to land on the runway at LGA and there were all sorts of problems. I've never heard of this potentional problem for a/c landing. Comments?

Regards.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
FlyingTexan
Posts: 2998
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:30 am

Too Hot To Land?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:51 am

Possibly the ‘too hot to land' was not referring to meteorological factors. The venerable ‘ATC delays’ comes to mind.
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12388
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Too Hot To Land?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:52 am

Is it possible that the heat (and it's suddeness) may have cause heat heaving of the concrete slabs or problems with the paving materials on the runways. I know that this can happen on some roads when the tempatures get hot in short order or well above normal tempatures. Remember that on Sunday through Tuesday this week, the NYC area tempatures were about 88-90 degrees F. (30-32 C). These problems may have limited the use of one of the runways, requiring all traffic on only one runway, then causing limited access in and out of LGA those days.
 
JBLUA320
Posts: 2997
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 8:51 am

Too Hot To Land?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:08 pm

I could just imagine LGA on 1 runway ops. It's a nightmare with 2...

JBLU
 
Newark777
Posts: 8284
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:23 am

Too Hot To Land?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:11 pm

Maybe there was a danger to the tires of landing planes if the pavement becomes too hot.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5005
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

Too Hot To Land?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:14 pm

I have to call bull on the heat theory; especially at that termpurature.

PHX, TUS, and LAS, to name a few, can get up into the 120's (F)/ 40's(C) in the summer. SNA can even see some days like this, and yet is has no major issues.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

Too Hot To Land?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:17 pm

>>>She mentioned to the other f/a deadheading home that it was too hot to land on the runway at LGA and there were all sorts of problems. I've never heard of this potentional problem for a/c landing.

I have no idea what the heck she was talking about...

The only time it's truly "too hot" is when an airport's temperature exceeds the aircraft's max operating temperature (MOT). The MOT at PHX for a -9 powered 737-200 is 122F, and some years ago when it hit 123F for a couple of hours we had to stop operating. I can't see MOT as any factor at the NYC airports, especially this time of the year...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
YZ717
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:15 pm

Too Hot To Land?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:29 pm

Further, what about Dubai or anywhere in the middle east? This recent heat is nothing compared to there.
 
nudelhirsch
Posts: 1371
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:20 am

Too Hot To Land?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:32 pm

I know what happened. The captain thought the FA was too hot to just land and let her go...
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
Cessnapimp
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2001 11:46 am

Too Hot To Land?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:50 pm

"Too hot" may have been meant metaphorically. "This place is too hot" can mean that the place is dangerous/rough/bad weather etc... etc...

There has been some bad weather at LGA yesterday and as a result many flights have been cancelled.

She either knew what she was talking about and was speaking metaphorically (knowing it was bad weather) or she overhear her pilot talk and took it litterally.
 
gothamspotter
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:54 pm

Too Hot To Land?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:07 pm

LGA was averaging 4 hour delays Monday due to a couple of massive lines of thunderstorms barrelling through and severe wind shear as they approached.
 
aa777jr
Posts: 2269
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:03 pm

Too Hot To Land?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:21 pm

I didn't think it would be possible for the runway to heat up enough to effect the rubber on the a/c tires...
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
Newark777
Posts: 8284
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:23 am

RE: Too Hot To Land?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:37 pm

I was just throwing an idea out there, guess I'm wrong.  Smile

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
XXXX10
Posts: 702
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2000 7:10 am

RE: Too Hot To Land?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:48 pm

AFAIK The only effect the temp might have is on the aircraft's go around performance but I doubt that would be a problem at LGA at 90 F if it were at a higher temp and an airfield surrounded by terrain then you may have a problem
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Too Hot To Land?

Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:30 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 5):
PHX, TUS, and LAS, to name a few, can get up into the 120's (F)/ 40's(C) in the summer. SNA can even see some days like this, and yet is has no major issues.

40C=104F
45C=113F
48.8889C=120F
50C=122F
Did you mean 120s Fahrenheit or 40s Celsius? There is not much of an overlap.
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Too Hot To Land?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:12 am

Personally I think the "too hot" story was just an excuse from a captain who did not care to go into a long complicated explanation, or explain a company decision that would have gotten angry letters from passengers.

That said, it can be "too hot" to land at a given airport.

Heat affects aircraft performance adversely. You cannot begin a landing approach unless you have the performance to do a rejected landing with one engine inoperative. Not likely to be a factor at LGA ever but it does happen at high elevation airports. Also the company might not want the plane landing there if it will not be able to take off until the weather cools down.

Also you cannot land if the ambient temperature is above 50oC or 122oF if your engines are flat-rated to that temperature. The airplane will do it, but you just don't have the charts for it.

Finally, no, the tire temperature is not going to be the limiting factor. The tires are serviced with dry nitrogen and there are fuse plugs to blow and relive the pressure if it gets too high. I'd be interested in hearing from someone who knows, approximately what kind of temps it takes to blow the fuse plugs.
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Goldenshield
Posts: 5005
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: Too Hot To Land?

Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:37 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 14):
Did you mean 120s Fahrenheit or 40s Celsius? There is not much of an overlap.

I did it as a general statement. I didn't have the formula in front of me to make an exact conversion.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.

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