777DadandJr
Topic Author
Posts: 1484
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:37 am

Reversing T/O Direction, But Not All A/C

Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:36 am

Wasn't sure how to word my post heading, but here goes.
My son and I we watching arrivals and departures at MDT (Harrisburg Int'l, Pa) from our patio the other night. (with binoculars, since the airport is about 20 miles away) MDT has a single 10500ft runway.
Most commonly rwy33 is in use. Planes arriving from the southeast, taking off towards the northwest. This is how it is most of the time.
Now, I know that, depending on the prevailing winds, they will shift ops to rwy13. (landings from the northwest, take offs towards the southeast)
There is a question here.

What would cause a shift from 33 to 13, but not for all a/c?

Example: we see 10 arrivals and 10 departures on 33, then 1 t/o on 13, then 5 more arrivals on 33.

Under what circumstances would they allow one a/c to take off on 13 when all other traffic is using 33?

Jr asked me and I didn't have an answer for him.

Thanks in advance!

Russ
My glass is neither 1/2 empty nor 1/2 full, rather, the glass itself is twice as big as it should be.
 
Woodreau
Posts: 1244
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

RE: Reversing T/O Direction, But Not All A/C

Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:16 am

If the pilots don't indicate a preference for landing/takeoff, ATC will route all aircraft to land/takeoff in the same direction - as indicated by the ATIS.

A pilot can always ask for a specific runway, 13 in your case, even though traffic will be departing/taking off in the opposite direction. If ATC can accommodate, then they'll try to fit it in and allow the aircraft to depart/land going against traffic.

ATC will tell the crew, they can probably depart opposite direction in about 15 minutes, or if ATC can't accommodate it because of heavy workload, then they'll make the aircraft takeoff in the same direction as everyone else - rwy 33.

Why might a crew ask for 13 when everyone is departing 33? because of operational requirements, or maybe they just want it for no particular reason. A pilot is always free to request a specific runway, ATC accommodates when it's able, but doesn't have to honor the request.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
727EMflyer
Posts: 538
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:22 am

RE: Reversing T/O Direction, But Not All A/C

Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:12 am

If you have a 60-90 degree crosswind it doesn't really matter which direction the plane lands... traffic permitting you can take off in the direction closest to you departure heading and land straight in instead of flying the pattern.
 
Newark777
Posts: 8284
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 6:23 am

RE: Reversing T/O Direction, But Not All A/C

Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:06 am

Here is an interesting read about a sort of similar topic:
Triple 7s Tail Wind Landings At Bermuda (by Columbia107 Jun 13 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
777DadandJr
Topic Author
Posts: 1484
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:37 am

RE: Reversing T/O Direction, But Not All A/C

Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:17 am

Thanks for the info guys.
I always know I can count on A.netters to offer up a logical explanation.

Thanks!

Russ
My glass is neither 1/2 empty nor 1/2 full, rather, the glass itself is twice as big as it should be.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Reversing T/O Direction, But Not All A/C

Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:39 pm

Quoting 777DadandJr (Thread starter):
Under what circumstances would they allow one a/c to take off on 13 when all other traffic is using 33?

Probably to reach faster,routing wise.
Out here When most Aircraft use Rnwy 27.Our South bound Flt opts for a Rnwy 09 dep,which saves around 10-15 mins.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
bond007
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Reversing T/O Direction, But Not All A/C

Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:51 pm

Yes, some good explanations, and I agree it's usually purely to save a few minutes in the air, depending on what direction you are heading.

BUT, in my experience, it's often not good practice and very often aircraft landing the 'preferred' runway are told to slow, and get late landing clearances because of opposite direction landings or departures. I been at a couple of airports (SUS Spirit of St.Louis in particular), where they try and make one pilot happy by saving him 10 minutes, and annoying (and delaying) 3 other pilots by vectoring them to allow the other guys to get in!

It's fine if there's no other traffic.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
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HAWK21M
Posts: 29917
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Reversing T/O Direction, But Not All A/C

Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:45 pm

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 6):
it's often not good practice and very often aircraft landing the 'preferred' runway are told to slow, and get late landing clearances because of opposite direction landings or departures

Govt owned AI & IC do get that Preference out here at Bom.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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