monteycarlos
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Possibility Of Bluetooth Headsets?

Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:57 pm

Hey Folks,

Yesterday I got a new bluetooth headset for my mobile phone and I love it, its so functional and free's up my hands so I can drive or type or do any number of things.

My question is: Could this new generation of wirless technology be implemented into the flight deck?

I would think that many advantages would exist in doing so, but only in future aircraft as the cost of updating newer planes would be higher than for what its worth.

Several issues might exist in the implementation like incorporating "noise reduction" systems etc. however is that a big drawback for commercial airliners?

And is it possible to incorporate this technology with something such as the EFB so a pilot and load data using voice commands on his/her headset?

Cheers....  Wink
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ikramerica
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RE: Possibility Of Bluetooth Headsets?

Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:01 pm

probably yes to all, but they will still need a wired backup. and bluetooth is notorious for losing contact and needed to be refound with computers. though that may improve over time, it would still be bad for a pilot for that to happen.
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Ralgha
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RE: Possibility Of Bluetooth Headsets?

Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:04 pm

Advantages? What advantages? You mean the advantage of having a radio transmitter right next to my head for hours on end? No thanks.
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monteycarlos
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RE: Possibility Of Bluetooth Headsets?

Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:11 pm

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 2):
Advantages? What advantages? You mean the advantage of having a radio transmitter right next to my head for hours on end? No thanks.

Yes but as I understand it pilots rarely wear their headsets for hours on end either.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
but they will still need a wired backup

Would they or would there still need to be a fallback device (i.e. an traditional headset) somewhere?

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
and bluetooth is notorious for losing contact and needed to be refound with computers. though that may improve over time

Obviously in its current state it might not be possible, but given adavancement in wireless technology it may certainly be possible in the future?

Another positive I thought just now would be the ability for the flight crew to have the headset with them on the rare occasions they leave the cabin and still be actively linked to ATC and the flight deck. Could that be of benefit?
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ikramerica
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RE: Possibility Of Bluetooth Headsets?

Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:50 pm

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 3):
Would they or would there still need to be a fallback device (i.e. an traditional headset) somewhere?

that's what i said.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Ralgha
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RE: Possibility Of Bluetooth Headsets?

Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:41 am

Quote:
Yes but as I understand it pilots rarely wear their headsets for hours on end either.

Obviously you're not a pilot.

Quote:
Another positive I thought just now would be the ability for the flight crew to have the headset with them on the rare occasions they leave the cabin and still be actively linked to ATC and the flight deck. Could that be of benefit?

That's what the other pilot is there for. If I'm in the lav taking a dump, the last thing I'm going to be thinking of is what ATC is talking about.

[Edited 2005-06-15 17:43:57]
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monteycarlos
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RE: Possibility Of Bluetooth Headsets?

Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:15 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
that's what i said.

I meant would they need a backup by law?

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 5):
Obviously you're not a pilot.

I'm not but it has little bearing on the discussion... Why don't you tell me exactly how you wear a headset long-haul instead of flaming me so I can get a bit of info?

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 5):
That's what the other pilot is there for. If I'm in the lav taking a dump, the last thing I'm going to be thinking of is what ATC is talking about.

So you obviously prefer the wired headsets - why is that?
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pilotpip
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RE: Possibility Of Bluetooth Headsets?

Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:07 pm

The headsets you see GA guys wearing aren't the most comfortable things for hours in the cockpit, but they are that big so they provide adequate noise cancellation because small aircraft aren't the quietest things in the world. And if you have the bucks, there are quite a few new headsets out there that are very light and comfortable compared to what was available a few years back.

Airline pilots, and bizjet pilots don't really have to worry about noise cancellation as much. They're sitting way up in front of the engines and have quite a bit of glass between them and the real world so the cockpit is quiet enough to have a conversation at "inside voices" level. Yes, there are some exceptions to this (ERJ's come to mind) but because of this, these pilots have more options. Many wear smaller headsets similiar to what you might have on your home stereo. There are small speakers that just rest on your ears. Others wear a small hearingaid-like plug. Both of these have very small boom mics and are very light. Much more comfortable for the long haul. Of course, in this environment, it's possible that they just use the loudspeaker and hand-held mic in the cockpit.

I wear the muff-style when flying. Yes, they do get uncomfortable for extremely long durations but I just pull them off my head for a minute, or pull a cup back off my ear for a while. I wear similiar hearing protection at work too so it really doesn't bother me. As for the wires, they seldom get in the way if you take 10 seconds and do a little strategic routing when you first get in the aircraft.

I personally don't see the need for bluetooth in the cockpit. It's one more thing for a pilot to screw up. Batteries can go dead at very inopportune times, transmitters can fail, it could interfere with avionics, etc. The system we have now has worked just fine for years. I think a more valuable usage could be an interface between a laptop and ACARS or the FMS but even this is a little bit of overkill in my mind.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Possibility Of Bluetooth Headsets?

Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:09 pm

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 2):
Advantages? What advantages? You mean the advantage of having a radio transmitter right next to my head for hours on end? No thanks.

Bluetooth transmitters are very weak. They give out about one thousandth of the radation compared to a typical cellphone. They only reach about 100 feet. So yes, there is a transmitter next to my ear, but it probably affects me less than than the local radio station.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Ralgha
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RE: Possibility Of Bluetooth Headsets?

Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:55 am

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 6):
I'm not but it has little bearing on the discussion... Why don't you tell me exactly how you wear a headset long-haul instead of flaming me so I can get a bit of info?

It has a lot of bearing on the discussion, since you seem to know exactly how pilots use their headsets. It also seems that you think long-haul is the only time you can wear a headset for hours. When I was instructing I'd wear a headset 8 hours a day sometimes. Now I wear a headset 6-7 hours a day sometimes.

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 6):
So you obviously prefer the wired headsets - why is that?

Well, I'm sitting in a seat, not wandering around, so why bother with a wireless headset when that's just one more thing to break? When (not if) the batteries die, you would be SOL with a wireless headset. There is all kinds of potential for interference in the airplane, which could cause the headset to lose its connection, or washout the signal, a wired headset doesn't have that problem.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 8):
Bluetooth transmitters are very weak. They give out about one thousandth of the radation compared to a typical cellphone. They only reach about 100 feet.

Design goal (ordinary communication) is closer to 1/100,000,000,000 (10 pW), and 30 feet, but those are just details.  bigthumbsup 
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monteycarlos
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RE: Possibility Of Bluetooth Headsets?

Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:53 pm

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 9):
It has a lot of bearing on the discussion, since you seem to know exactly how pilots use their headsets.

You don't have to be a pilot to know these things. And either way I said "by the way I understand it" meaning "I'm not sure, but..."

Just forget it - I'm not a pilot so anything I say to you you're going to disregard anyway.

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 9):
It also seems that you think long-haul is the only time you can wear a headset for hours.

Well if youre referring to instructing then do you often instruct flying around in a commerical airliner? If so, what difference would it make on the type of headset you have?

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 9):
Well, I'm sitting in a seat, not wandering around, so why bother with a wireless headset when that's just one more thing to break?

Yeah but by that logic a normal headset can fail all the same.

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 9):
When (not if) the batteries die, you would be SOL with a wireless headset. There is all kinds of potential for interference in the airplane, which could cause the headset to lose its connection, or washout the signal, a wired headset doesn't have that problem.

Thats why the threads titled "possibility of...?" Why couldn't you have said that the first time?
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Starlionblue
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RE: Possibility Of Bluetooth Headsets?

Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:53 pm

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 9):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 8):
Bluetooth transmitters are very weak. They give out about one thousandth of the radation compared to a typical cellphone. They only reach about 100 feet.

Design goal (ordinary communication) is closer to 1/100,000,000,000 (10 pW), and 30 feet, but those are just details.

Thx I didn't know it was that weak. And yes 30 feet is probably closer to the truth in normal conditions indoors, but I have achieved 100 feet outdoors. Still I have feel good about it being so weak. I'd rather not grow a cyst on my ear Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo

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