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TupolevTu154
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Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:00 pm

Go-Arounds...

Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:48 am

Hi

Today I went to LGW, surprisingly to me, I saw my first go arounds... Well, actually, three of them. Three aircraft in the space of three hours at Gatwick went around, the first being a Ryanair 737-200, the second I didn't see, but I could tell by the noise it was an A32X. The third one was a TAP Air Portugal A319.
Anyway, the A32X and 319 both took the same go-around path, that being a right turn away from the airport itself heading south. The Ryanair 732 on the other hand, just ascended and flew straight over the runway with an awaiting 777 still on the runway, the ryanair continued straight over the runway, then turned right once it had left the other side of the airport. All of the go-arounds were caused by aircraft waiting on the end of the runway for departure.

My question is, why didn't the Airbus's take the same route as the 737, or why didn't the 737 take the route of the Airbus's?

Just wondering, and decided to start a topic lol, sorry it's a bit long  Silly

Thanks for your help in advance.

Tom Big grin
 
SlamClick
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RE: Go-Arounds...

Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:48 am

Perhaps a controller from LGW or a pilot more familiar than I am will jump in and give you a more specific answer. When a go around is necessary for traffic on the runway, they usually want to spot you in as soon as practical for your landing. (If you caused the go around they might not be so helpful.) Sometimes, however, like at the start of a bunch of arrivals, they may have to "build a hole" to slot you into.

So with arrivals at LGW mostly from the south and southeast, they may have needed them to proceed farther east than the usual. The proximity of LHR and other airports only complicates it further.
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Glom
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RE: Go-Arounds...

Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:03 am

You say the 732 took the different route? I wouldn't be surprised to hear noise abatement had a strong part in that. Those buggers are loud.
 
N243NW
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RE: Go-Arounds...

Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:45 pm

Glom-

You have a good point there. It's very possible that the controllers wanted the 732 at as high an altitude as possible before it left the airport property. My guess is that either that or the also aformentioned traffic issues, such as an incoming aircraft abeam to the active runway, resulted in the 732 going around the way it did.

-N243NW  

[Edited 2005-06-19 06:45:37]
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Jetlagged
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RE: Go-Arounds...

Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:11 pm

Just speculation but the 732 has no FMC so might have followed a simpler go-around procedure (maintain runway heading until reaching hold altitude). The A320 and A319 would have the go-around procedure for the runway programmed into the FMC. Sounds like they all headed south eventually to a common hold point.
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bond007
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RE: Go-Arounds...

Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:50 pm

Probably just different routes because of traffic.


rgds,

Jimbo
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atco2b
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RE: Go-Arounds...

Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:19 pm

I used to get LGW go-arounds over my house!

What i am guessing from your post Tom is that 08R was in operation. If this is the case, the A32x's would have headed towards Mayfield VOR before running parallel with 26L, then beginning the approach to 08R.

What im guessing with the FR B737-200 is that it was arriving from Dublin! The previous sector it would have been with would be Gatwick Final Approach, and previous to that it would have been with a Sector Northwest to Gatwick, before being handed to Gatwick Final Approach. Im guessing that Gatwick Final Approach was very busy and therefore the FR was being handed to the sector PREVIOUS to Finals, so that it could then be vectored with current arrival traffic.

Hope this helps Big grin lol

Tom
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bongo
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RE: Go-Arounds...

Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:48 am

Quoting TupolevTu154 (Thread starter):
My question is, why didn't the Airbus's take the same route as the 737, or why didn't the 737 take the route of the Airbus's?

My question is why three go-arounds in the same airport and in just a short three hours term?
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pilotpip
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RE: Go-Arounds...

Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:02 am

Because they could have been busy. All it takes to throw everything off is one aircraft not exiting the runway fast enough or taking it's time lining up for takeoff. Approach sequences aircraft so that there is the minimum time needed to safely operate the airplane when it gets busy to minimize delays. If something goes amiss, it's just like driving on the interstate. All of a sudden, everybody bunches up and a traffic jam starts. The only difference, aircraft can't just stop of course. They reject the landing, go around, and line up for it one more time.

Go-arounds aren't really that rare. Even at a field that is less busy, like STL, it isn't unusual to see two or three in my eight hour shift. If one runway is closed or it's abnormally busy you'll see more. One of the things we are taught as pilots is to reject the landing and go around if there is something we don't like down there.
DMI
 
Glom
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RE: Go-Arounds...

Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:15 am

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 8):
One of the things we are taught as pilots is to reject the landing and go around if there is something we don't like down there.

And to fly the approach expecting to go-around.
 
G-CIVP
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RE: Go-Arounds...

Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:26 am

Piotpip - It's to do with some taxi-way, runway exits re-surfacing. When using 08's, the heavies have to taxi to virtually the end of the runway to vacate, well further than usual. Although ATC have increased the spacing between landing aircraft, I would imagine some of the heavies are taking longer than expected on the runway, hence the higher number than usual go-arounds. Hope this helps.
 
bongo
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RE: Go-Arounds...

Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:59 am

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 8):
Go-arounds aren't really that rare

I know that they aren't rare...but, three in in three hours? I may think that something on ground is happening, isn't it?  Confused
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
pilotpip
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RE: Go-Arounds...

Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:24 am

G-CIVP explained it. Construction causing a turnoff or two midfield to be closed would definitely be cause for extra time spent on the runway. Guess they need to space the traffic a little more until the work is done.  Smile
DMI
 
atco2b
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RE: Go-Arounds...

Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:02 pm

But then again, this is air traffic. Air Traffic that is supposed to double over the next 10 years!
Hey, you want to go out for pizza and some sex? What, you don't like pizza?
 
bond007
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RE: Go-Arounds...

Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:51 am

Well, air traffic cannot double without changes in the system can it?
Probably none of the busy airports could possible cope TODAY with double the traffic ... and they don't have to right now.

The simple anwer to the multiple go-arounds question, is that the aircraft on final were spaced according to best case scenario (i.e fast turnoff and clearing active runways) ... if there was construction that prevented fast exiting on the runway, and ATC didn't plan for this, then this is what happened when an aircraft didn't exit as expected.

No doubt they learned to not space them so close after a few go-arounds.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!

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