wing
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Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:06 am

I 've flown in various companies and aircraft types.In every fleet there is at least one aircraft that crews hate to fly it,engineers hate to work on it for various reasons.

We had one such 737-800 in my old company which we didnt like flying. The fella was one of the very first -800s flying around and didnt have the same features that the newer MSN numbers have.

In my new company the fleet is consisting of airplanes from various sources,so they have some differences where the equipment located.Like the LG pins stored left side in some and the next is stored in a different compartment behind the captain side seat.There is one particular aircraft which the FO seat electric controls are not working for the last couple of flights I have been flying.It really frustrating after you get used to "electric chair" trying to adjust with manual controls.(I was not complaining about this after all my flying on the 737 since we didnt have it,but I complain when it doesnt work on the 320/321,can you see how mankind gets used to the better and easier Smile )

Lets hear about the black sheep airplane of your fleet...
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dl757md
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:42 am

I'm a Delta AMT and Delta flies the MD-90. Nuff said.

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OzLAME
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:49 am

At the airline I work for the Black Sheep is the aircraft we most recently received second-hand from the USA, until we get all the bugs out of it. Then the title of Black Sheep reverts back to a particular a/c which has a different cabin to all the others in the fleet and that perennially suffers from electrical glitches. It even has the most light bulb changes.
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jeffry747
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:03 am

At UPS we have N520UP, a 747-200, which has been occasionally dubbed "Devilbird". The ballmat in the side cargo door has no "smartwheels" which rotate to assist load and unload. As a result the aircraft takes a little longer to turn and is generally a pain in the you-know-what to load and unload. One horror story involves trying to get a spare JT-9 off the main deck, which had been loaded longitudinally. It took ten people to move the engine towards the cargo door. Once, we got it on the ballmat we had to TURN that beast to get it out the door. Believe me, when you're trying to unload something that big, the cabin of the 747 seems awful tiny. To make matters worse, the bearings in the ballmat had too much friction and the JT-9 got stuck halfway out the door. We called up four or five more people and eventually shoved that thing out of the plane. The smartwheels would have made the process SOOOO much easier. Nowadays when a crew is dispatched to load/unload N520UP, the first response is "Great! We are gonna be here all night."
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G4Doc2004
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:04 am

It's a Beechjet 400A.........the airplane was built by Oompa Loompa's. Everthing you need to access is in areas too big for hands, arms, etc. Simple R&R's are all day projects.  Sad
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HAWK21M
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:48 pm

We sure do have our Blacksheep & it keeps us busy at times.
Apart from that I've noticed that snag are contagious too.If a particular snag occured on one Aircraft & rectified,it would be a matter of time when it appears on the Next.

An Accompaning Airline had one Aircraft by the Reg VT-ECP [Code named E C Pay Problem] [In Hindi] because it always had some problem.Finally it was grounded following a financial dispute & still stands in a very bad state at BOM Remote Bay Junkyard awaiting scrapping one day.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
OzLAME
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:04 pm

Quoting G4Doc2004 (Reply 4):
It's a Beechjet 400A.........the airplane was built by Oompa Loompa's. Everthing you need to access is in areas too big for hands, arms, etc. Simple R&R's are all day projects.

That's because it's a Mitsubishi; the MU-2 is the same.
Monty Python's Flying Circus has nothing to do with aviation, except perhaps for Management personnel.
 
Venus6971
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:45 am

When I was in AWACS our 2 blacksheep were the first 2 planes built, prototypes 71-1407 and 71-1408 they are more or less commercial 707-3XX's with rotodomes stuck on them. they were different from the rest of the fleet and had different usable on codes for supply for major components such as landing gear and flight controls.
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Buzz
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:25 pm

Hi WIng, Buzz here. About 20 years ago UAL wanted to expand it's Pacific Operation, and needed 747's so it bought 'em from anybody they could. We had about 10 747 SP's from Pan Am, some L-1011-500's and a DC-10-30 (ex National) too. We also bought a bunch of 747-238's from Quantas.

There was a deal to buy 4 used 747-123's for .... maybe 65 million. The engines were "rented" from P+W and once the airplanes reached SFO they went back to Pratt + Whitney. We called 'em The Lemon Sisters. For those of you who don't get the pun, there was a quartet of women singers in the 1940's called The Lenin Sisters. Anyway, heavy overhaul on them took about 3 times longer than what our 747-122's require. And the wiring and systems were a problem for a long time. Structually, we were heavily involved in corrosion repair.

They pretty much worked most of the time. If you see photos of UAL 747's hauling troops to the first Gulf War in '90, they're the 3 window upper deck 747's.

We sold a couple of the L-1011's to Delta, the Delta guys next door called one of them "The Tri-tanic".

And about 10 years ago i recall a 737-222 that had a whole string of autopilot problems for a couple months. It didn't help that the nose number was 9666 "the Guppy from hell"

Some stories are best told long after the problems have left - the hard feelings tend to dissipate as the years go by.
g'day
 
UAL Bagsmasher
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:36 pm

We have a CRJ that has not left the hangar once on time in the morning since I started working for the company. It had a pesky fuel leak that kept it grounded for days on end. It had steering problems that took a few days to figure out. It had a door rigging issue. You name it, it never fails to give us hell. Everyone cringes when we see it on the list of planes coming in for work. I won't disclose the ship's number, but let's just say she didn't live up to her name in the Beach Boys song. Wink
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:11 am

Quoting Buzz (Reply 8):
And about 10 years ago i recall a 737-222 that had a whole string of autopilot problems for a couple months. It didn't help that the nose number was 9666 "the Guppy from hell"

How was the snag Rectified.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:33 am

Quoting Buzz (Reply 8):
We called 'em The Lemon Sisters. For those of you who don't get the pun, there was a quartet of women singers in the 1940's called The Lenin Sisters.

Were they related to that Vladimir Lenin guy from Russia?  Wink

( I think you mean the "Lennon" Sisters...)

Back on topic, when I was back at Air Florida in the very early 1980s, we had 4 737-100s that had come from Singapore Airlines, and two of these aircraft were so problematic that we named them "Godzilla" and "Rodan" after the two movie monsters...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:01 pm

What About Contagious Snags.Anyone Experience them.ie If a Snag occurs on one Aircraft in the Fleet its repeated soon on Another Aircraft.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
twincommander
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:27 am

One of our GulfWagens, N227TS C/N 27 is quite old... From what I understand she is always having issues with the airframe. Her engines however are super freekin powerful :-p
 
cancidas
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:02 pm

for me it would be N824HK. when we see the "TRN" identifier on the FIDs screen it becomes time to pull out the airstarter and a GPU and an extra headset for the engine start. =( why can't they just fix the damn APU?!?
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abbs380
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:28 pm

Not really black sheep, but a pain in the butt. A-300 & A-310 with P&W engines. Company policy for starting engs. is, max motoring + 30 sec. (really) before fuel on. I swear you can have a CF6 powered a/c gone before the P&W has the first eng. going. Dont know why, P&W engs. seem ok reliability wise, guess they just hot start easier.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:46 pm

Quoting Abbs380 (Reply 15):
Company policy for starting engs. is, max motoring + 30 sec. (really) before fuel on.

Whats the Minimum Motoring prior to Fuel Injection.Whats stops it being used.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:55 am

We had this 747-100 that was basically a mess.

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For the later years that NW operated her. Her ship number was 6608, but she was affectionately known as sixty-sicko eight becuase when the upper-deck lav was flushed, the blue liquid(unused) would run down the sidewall in B zone. It was a high-density Beach Market configuration, so it was coach section that had to endure that discomfort.
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WrenchBender
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:27 am

I've heard this A/C referred to as 'Triple Pig'

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A couple of Sea Kings I worked on as 'Satan Spawn" and 'Son of Spawn', and our heavy maint crew was called 'Sprite' by the rest of the Squadron because we couldn't get 7 Up (the last Chinook we put thru maint was 147007).

WrenchBender
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dairbus
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:57 am

Delta used to have an L-1011 ship 724 which had been converted with additional fuel tanks for increased range and redesignated as a TriStar 200. Not only was it an oddball since it was the only one of it's kind but it also tended to have lots of maintenance issues especially with the fuel system. Maybe a Delta old-timer can elaborate.
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Notar520AC
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:32 pm

Quoting DAirbus (Reply 19):
Delta used to have an L-1011 ship 724 which had been converted with additional fuel tanks for increased range and redesignated as a TriStar 200.

Anyone know how much range the extra tanks added on or city-pairs this a/c flew?
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abbs380
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:23 pm

Mel, I dont remember what the minimum is, but I think P&W says fuel on at 20% N2. But company policy is max motoring + 30 sec. Now this seems kind of silly because max motoring is usually a little over 22% but of course this can vary due to the health of the apu. An a/c with a good apu will get you up to 20% pretty quick but that last 2% can take (what seems like) a long time, then you are supposed to hold that for 30 sec. With GE engs its just 20%-bam- fuel on. Pilots dont like it either, its just company policy.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:40 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
when the upper-deck lav was flushed, the blue liquid(unused) would run down the sidewall in B zone.

There would probably be a lot of Corrosion Issues around that area during Major Checks.

Quoting Abbs380 (Reply 21):
But company policy is max motoring + 30 sec.

Did the Company give an Explanation on the Logic.
If the APU bleed was an Issue.It would have been solved fast.How long was this snag & how was it Finally rectified.Or was it.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
abbs380
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:50 pm

MEL, It was not rectified and the company does not consider it a problem, it is just considered a difference. The pilots dont have an explanation for it, its just how they are told to operate the a/c. I agree its not an issue with the apu, duct pressure does not drop any lower while cranking a P&W vs. a GE. Its not a major problem, but as I said, it takes a few more minutes to depart a P&W powered a/c. We have to remain on the headset (regardless of eng.) until the crew is happy with the a/c & ready to taxi.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:26 pm

Quoting Abbs380 (Reply 23):
It was not rectified and the company does not consider it a problem

Hows it in the Flt Ops Manual & AMM of the Aircraft Concerned.Is It ok with the Doc data.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
jeffry747
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:30 am

Quoting WrenchBender (Reply 18):
A couple of Sea Kings I worked on as 'Satan Spawn" and 'Son of Spawn', and our heavy maint crew was called 'Sprite' by the rest of the Squadron because we couldn't get 7 Up (the last Chinook we put thru maint was 147007).

LMAO!! I wonder if those Sea Kings are related to UPS "Devilbird" a.k.a. N520UP.

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For the story on N520UP see reply 3.
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dl757md
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:43 am

Quoting dribs (Reply 19):
Delta used to have an L-1011 ship 724 which had been converted with additional fuel tanks for increased range and redesignated as a TriStar 200. Not only was it an oddball since it was the only one of it's kind but it also tended to have lots of maintenance issues especially with the fuel system

Actually, Delta had several 100s that had the extra fuel tanks. They were not designated 200s but rather 250s. Basically the 100 has a dry bay in the center wing box under the fuselage. That area was converted to fuel storage as was found on the 500s. It also used the RB-211-524B engines from the 500 and had an increased MTOW. There weren't any mtc issues regarding the extra fuel capacity as the system was identical to that found on the 500. I would know if there were any issues as I worked L-1011 fuel systems exclusively for three years at Delta. The L-1011 had fuel leak issues toward the end of it's career but this effected all L-1011s not just the converted 250s.

The 250s were the most useful L-1011s in Delta's fleet and were used extensively on the ATL-HNL route because of their high seat capacity/cargo capacity, and range.

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
dl757md
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:52 am

At Delta this is the "Devilship". It always seems to be a little more broke than the rest of our 57s.


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Dl757Md
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dairbus
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:05 pm

Ah yes. Ship 666. I have had the dubious pleasure of working it several times. I used to call it "The Beast" in reference to the book of Revelations. Some of my co-workers and my sister (gate agent for DL) called it the "Devilship" as well. Definitely not one of the good ones.  devil 
"I love mankind. It's people I can't stand." - Charles Shultz
 
TimT
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:56 pm

Yep, we call her "Christine". She'll stab you in the heart at every chance. Just get her way out from any type of ground support. Be sure and pack your bags, because there's a high probability you'll be there a while.
 
LMP737
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:14 pm

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 1):
I'm a Delta AMT and Delta flies the MD-90. Nuff said.

Hey now, as AMT's who have worked on MD-90's we both have admit our pay checks are a bit bigger when working on the 90.  Wink
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
scarebus03
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:41 pm

Jeffry747

I remember N520UP well, in fact I will never forget it as we used to do heavy maint for UPS in Dublin, Devilbird!!! FOR SURE!

I remember another A/C I worked on an ex Aeroflot A310 off lease in Belgium the registration said it all F-OGYU!!


Saludos
No faults found......................
 
JETPILOT
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:44 pm

My company has one 727 from TWA we refer to as SHITBIRD. All the overhead switches are foward for OFF, and back for ON. All TWA birds were built like that.

I can't tell you how many times I taxi'd to the runway with my landing lights ON, and shut them off taking the active. By the time your used to it... your in another plane doing the opposite. I bid my lines to stay away from SHITBIRD. It controls my life.

Respect
JET
 
Cruiser
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:13 pm

Quoting DAirbus (Reply 19):
Delta used to have an L-1011 ship 724 which had been converted with additional fuel tanks for increased range and redesignated as a TriStar 200. Not only was it an oddball since it was the only one of it's kind but it also tended to have lots of maintenance issues especially with the fuel system. Maybe a Delta old-timer can elaborate.

Oddly enough, I found this website yesterday: http://www.l1011.homestead.com/

It is a website dedicated to the last L1011 (Delta Belle, ship 728) when it was flown to the desert. It seems that a lot of employees were sad to see it go because they would miss all the problems it caused!

Cruiser
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UAL Bagsmasher
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RE: Blacksheep Airplanes Of Your Fleet

Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:13 pm

Well, she struck again. Our Blacksheep aircraft, the one I mentioned in this thread, is once again dead in ORD. This time she needs a tank dive. I had the pleasure of sumping the remaining fuel from her tanks last night. I HATE that plane I tell ya.... banghead 

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