aireuropeuk733
Posts: 944
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:33 pm

A330 & A340 Climb Rates

Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:07 pm

Please note that this is not intended to be a discussion of A v B or A340 v T7 bashing. Here goes...

In these forums I read about the climb rate being not too great on the A340 but no mention of the A330 climb rate.

Am I being ignorant but I thought the A340 was basically and A330 with 4 engines? Is this not the case?

If so would the A330 not suffer from the same 'problem' as the A340?

If someone could shed some light I would be very grateful.

Thanks

AE733
It's nice to fly with friends
 
LeanOfPeak
Posts: 496
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:18 am

RE: A330 & A340 Climb Rates

Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:13 am

One of the major limiting factors in the design of an aircraft is regulation governing engine-out performance; First and foremost the case of takeoff distance with an engine failure at the point where it takes the same distance to take off and get 50 feet off the ground or stop, and secondarily requirements governing one-engine-inoperative (OEI) climb gradients.

A side effect of this is that, since an OEI twin is working on 50% of its total thrust, but an OEI quad is working on 75% of its total thrust, the total installed thrust of the twin must be greater to attain required OEI performance.

The A330/A340 are no exception. Each of the A330's engines produces more than twice the thrust of each of the A340's engines.

The side effect of this is, of course, enhanced performance for a twin with both engines operating.
 
aireuropeuk733
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RE: A330 & A340 Climb Rates

Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:25 am

Ahh - I was forgetting that the engines on the two are different. Am I right in thinking that the A330 has GE/PW/RR engines whereas the A340 has only the CFM hairdryers?

Thanks

AE733
It's nice to fly with friends
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: A330 & A340 Climb Rates

Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:18 am

Quoting AirEuropeUK733 (Reply 2):
Ahh - I was forgetting that the engines on the two are different. Am I right in thinking that the A330 has GE/PW/RR engines whereas the A340 has only the CFM hairdryers?

You are right except that the 340-200/300/8000 has CFM hairdryers, which the -500/600 has Rolls Royce hairdryers with the maximum volume attachment.

[Edited 2005-07-12 19:22:26]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
SlamClick
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RE: A330 & A340 Climb Rates

Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:07 am

What he said about the 50% vs. 75% is applicable to other types as well. There seems to be an unwritten rule that you will speak no evil about the 747 but frankly, the early ones at least were pigs!

I saw one a hundred miles up the coast from SFO on its way to Asia, just climbing through eleven thousand feet. That was with ALL FOUR burning. A Piper Apache on one engine would seriously outclimb it.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
Pihero
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RE: A330 & A340 Climb Rates

Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:14 am

SlamClick,

Glad you wrote that.
At max takeoff weight,the 747-400 needs more than half-an-hour to climb to FL 290, its opt level eastbound.
I could provide the exact performance figures for both airplanes if you so wish.

And frankly,this "hairdryer" nonsense is getting old.

May I suggest you all find another way to describe it ?
Contrail designer
 
SlamClick
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RE: A330 & A340 Climb Rates

Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:45 am

Quoting Pihero (Reply 5):
At max takeoff weight,the 747-400 needs more than half-an-hour to climb to FL 290

By contrast, I took off from sea level in a nearly gross-weight 767 and climbed from liftoff to FL400 in sixteen minutes.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
Pihero
Posts: 4236
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RE: A330 & A340 Climb Rates

Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:37 pm

SlamClick,
That's impressive. I used to fly L-1011's from Paris to the Gulf and just about every time I would be restricted to FL 310 because of a horde of 767's from London on the same route. Of course the Tristar is faster,but the 767's were well inside the jetstream tube,thus making a similar ground speed. Very frustrating.
On an other subject, last winter, on a 319, I took off at about max gross from Toulouse to Paris, flying into a well established northerly jetstream with a very nice and progressive wind gradient.The AT controllers played the game with us...Result was 10 minutes from brake release to fl 350. Couldn't go any higher because of an airway restriction. But that can hardly be the performance one can expect everyday from an airplane.

Regards.
Contrail designer
 
aireuropeuk733
Posts: 944
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:33 pm

RE: A330 & A340 Climb Rates

Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:56 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 5):
And frankly,this "hairdryer" nonsense is getting old.

May I suggest you all find another way to describe it ?

Apologies Pihero, no offence intended  Smile

AE733
It's nice to fly with friends
 
Hauke
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 6:21 am

RE: A330 & A340 Climb Rates

Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:45 pm

Hi everyone!

Quoting LeanOfPeak (Reply 1):
The A330/A340 are no exception. Each of the A330's engines produces more than twice the thrust of each of the A340's engines.

Just an added remark to this. Yes, true, the 330 engines produce around 300kN each and the 340 around 140kN each, meaning the 340 has around 40kN less thrust in total. With an engine failure the 330 has only 300kN to get airborne, the 340 though has 420kN meaning the max take-off weight of the 340 may be around 30% higher than that of the 330, although total thrust is actually lower on the 340

Does anyone know the exact rate of climb for a fully loaded A333 and a fully loaded A343? would be interesseting comparing it.

hauke
 
Mir
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: A330 & A340 Climb Rates

Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:05 am

Quoting Pihero (Reply 5):
And frankly,this "hairdryer" nonsense is getting old.

May I suggest you all find another way to describe it ?

The Little Engines that Could?  Wink  stirthepot 

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
rendezvous
Posts: 531
Joined: Sun May 20, 2001 9:14 pm

RE: A330 & A340 Climb Rates

Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:21 pm

Nice call on that name MIR

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