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RobK
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How Do You Start An Airliner?

Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:49 am

Hi all,

Someone asked me the same question a few days ago and I couldn't answer it so I'm hoping to find out the answer by asking on here  Smile.

So, how's it done? Do you have a key and an ignition which you crank up like in a car or what ?

What about the external doors? Do these have a lock and key for them too?

 bigthumbsup 

Methods from everything from a Ce152 to a 747 would be interesting reading.

Cheers,

Rob K  Wink
 
Beaucaire
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:55 am

If you have to ask advise on a.net you have probabely the wrong background all together....
Lost of posts about this issue have been issued in various aviation-forums but it all boils down to access of substantial amount of money....
One wise man said -when asked how to become rich - "well if you start as very ,very rich rich and open an airline you might end up just rich...."
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
TrappedinMKG
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:58 am

He said start an AIRLINER, not an AIRLINE.
 
PMN
Posts: 547
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:01 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):

Either you're being sarcastic or you have totally missed the point of the question...

Paul
Edith in his bed, a plane in the rain is humming, the wires in the walls are humming some song - some mysterious song
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:03 am

A C-152 start is similar to a car, turn the key and the starter turns the engine.

Jet engines are started with compressed air from a GPU or APU, turns the starter motor, which turns the turbine. Somewhere around 12%-15%, the throttle is moved to the start position and begins metering fuel into the engine. An igniter (kind of a really big spark plug) ingnites the fuel as it enters the burner section or burner cans. The engine gradually spools up to idle, at which time, in some aircraft, the throttle is placed over a detent or stop, to the throttle idle position. Other aircraft the throttle is already in this position, after moving through the start positions.

This is repeated to start the remaining engines.

That is very basic, but I hope it helps.
 
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RobK
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:07 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
A C-152 start is similar to a car, turn the key and the starter turns the engine.

Jet engines are started with compressed air from a GPU or APU, turns the starter motor, which turns the turbine. Somewhere around 12%-15%, the throttle is moved to the start position and begins metering fuel into the engine. An igniter (kind of a really big spark plug) ingnites the fuel as it enters the burner section or burner cans. The engine gradually spools up to idle, at which time, in some aircraft, the throttle is placed over a detent or stop, to the throttle idle position. Other aircraft the throttle is already in this position, after moving through the start positions.

This is repeated to start the remaining engines.

That is very basic, but I hope it helps.

Very interesting! Thanks!

Cheers,

Rob K  Wink
 
PSA53
Posts: 2928
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:54 pm

RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:14 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
One wise man said -when asked how to become rich - "well if you start as very ,very rich rich and open an airline you might end up just rich...."

Good way to put it.And the oil prices are soaring.Some airlines already
positioning themselves as mega,mega carriers.And guess what?When
that happens,it could open more opportunity for more start-up
regional carriers.

We had the subject,"Short Lived Airline Companies,"on A.net, that started up
and then folded within a 5 years,even I was amazed of how many carriers
folded in that time frame.
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
jfkaua
Posts: 972
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:42 am

RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:17 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
If you have to ask advise on a.net you have probabely the wrong background all together....
Lost of posts about this issue have been issued in various aviation-forums but it all boils down to access of substantial amount of money....
One wise man said -when asked how to become rich - "well if you start as very ,very rich rich and open an airline you might end up just rich...."



Quoting Psa53 (Reply 6):
Good way to put it.And the oil prices are soaring.Some airlines already
positioning themselves as mega,mega carriers.And guess what?When
that happens,it could open more opportunity for more start-up
regional carriers.

We had the subject,"Short Lived Airline Companies,"on A.net, that started up
and then folded within a 5 years,even I was amazed of how many carriers
folded in that time frame.

do you guys read the topic or the question at all?!?!
 
DLKAPA
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:26 am

Well, in order to be able to start an airliner, and airline probably has to be started at some point?
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
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RobK
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:29 am

I'm asking how you start an AIRLINER, ie. how do you start the engines. NOT how do you start an airline.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:36 am

got the message - sorry for the confusion- it's very hot here in the south of France....heat must have spoilt my view...  melting 
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
PSA53
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:37 am

Quoting Jfkaua (Reply 7):
do you guys read the topic or the question at all?!?!

Your right.Just got up.Eyes not focus yet.
What a night.

[Edited 2005-07-24 20:45:11]
Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
 
Glom
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:40 am

Startup procedures on all the aircraft are more involved than just getting strapped it, shutting the door and turning the key. On modern single engine piston aircraft, various switches must be set for electrics and the fuel system must be setup before engine start and in more powerful engines, the startup is a little more complicated than just turning the key.
 
SimProgrammer
Posts: 164
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:18 am

Yep, you just crank it and away she goes...

no.no seriously.. theres no keys or door locks. This is a day fine weather check for an A319. I have ignored cabin and outside checks.

At the gate:

0=Landing Gear Lever - DOWN
1=Engine Master Switches -OFF
2=Logbook - CHECKED
3=Circuit Breakers - NORMAL
4=ADIRS - NAV
5=Oxygen - ON
6=Emergency Lights - ARMED
7=Pressurization - AUTO
8=Engine/Wing Anti-Ice - OFF
9=Air Conditioning - SET
10=Electrical - SET
11=Hydraulics - SET
12=Fire Pushbuttons - PUSH IN
13=Instruments - FLAGS NORMAL
14=Altimeters - SET
15=ECAM - DOORS, STATUS CHECKED
16=Fuel - CHECK RELEASE MINIMUM
17=Anti-Skid - ON
18=Nose Wheel Steering - ON
19=Gear - DOWN + GREEN
20=Switching - NORMAL
21=Takeoff Warning - CHECKED
22=Engine Master Switches - OFF
23=MCDU - SET

With Pushback hitched:

0=ADIRS - ALIGN LIGHTS ON
1=Beacon - ON
2=Fuel Pumps - AUTO + ON
3=Sliding Windows - BOTH LOCKED
4=Doors - ALL GREEN, SLIDES ARMED

Pushback:

0=Engine/Wing Anti-Ice again - OFF
1=ECAM Status - CHECKED
2=Wave Off - RECEIVED

Before takeoff:

0=Allowable Takeoff Weight - CHECKED
1=Flaps - SET
2=Trim - SET
3=APU - OFF
4=Controls - FREE + NORMAL
5=Thrust Mode - TAKEOFF
6=V Bug + whatever-kts - CHECKED + SET
Drive a bus, an Airbus, easier than a London bus!
 
OzLAME
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:52 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
A C-152 start is similar to a car, turn the key and the starter turns the engine.

Well, there is a bit more to it than that; in piston-engined a/c you have to prime the engine/s with fuel and set throttle and mixture. If you get it wrong you can crank the engine until the cows come home but it won't start.
The simplest a/c to start I have seen so far in my career are the Swearingen/Fairchild Metro series. It's not the correct way to start them but it is possible to jump in, turn on the batteries and hit the start button. The engine will usually spool up nicely, especially on the IIIs and 23s.
Monty Python's Flying Circus has nothing to do with aviation, except perhaps for Management personnel.
 
jumppilot
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:35 am

Find the "do not push" button and Push it!
pull back to go up, pull way back to go down!
 
GQfluffy
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:26 am

Quoting Jfkaua (Reply 7):

You've been a a.net member for almost a year and you still have to ask that question?  Wink
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
c172
Posts: 101
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:33 am

Quoting OzLAME (Reply 14):
Well, there is a bit more to it than that; in piston-engined a/c you have to prime the engine/s with fuel and set throttle and mixture.

Not always. Primer is listed "as necessary" but not a requisite item on the checklist. For instance, an engine that shut down just a few minutes before your flight requires no primer to start.
 
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NZ1
Crew
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:51 am

RobK

Here is a basic rundown for a 744.

If you are netering a deadship, first turn on the battery switch. Then turn the APU start switch on the overhead panel to start, and let it go. It will flip back to the run position. APU will go through its own sequence and start up. When it is at normal operating speed the 2 generators will automatiocally come online.

Now you have power.

Next, select the APU bleed air switch on, and also the left and right wing isolation valves on.

Now you have air to both wings and all 4 engines.

Next, turn on all 4 forward and aft fuel boost pumps. Now we are ready to start an engine.

On the overhead panel, pull out the start button for number 4 engine. The engine will start to spool up to a max N2 speed of around 28% (for a CF6). Howver when it is over 15% and the EGT indication is below 180 degrees C, you may put the run lever underneath the throttle quadrant to the run position. The engine will light off and spool up to the idle operating speed.

Congrats you have started an engine. 3 more to go. You can start 2 at a time on the 744 or use autostart to do it for you. This is a basic rundown as you had asked for in post number 1.

Cheers
NZ1
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NZ1
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RobK
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:10 pm

Excellent. Thanks NZ1. Interesting.  bigthumbsup 

Cheers,

Rob K  Wink
 
Mir
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:00 pm

In most big jet planes, the start sequence is fully automated, and requires only a button to push or a knob to turn, but there's generally a whole song and dance that has to be done before you can get to that point.

IIRC, in the Airbus, once you have done that whole song and dance (most importantly turning on the APU, APU bleed, and fuel pumps), you then flip the engine master switch for the appropriate engine to on. The computer takes it from there.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
air2gxs
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:15 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
In most big jet planes, the start sequence is fully automated, and requires only a button to push or a knob to turn, but there's generally a whole song and dance that has to be done before you can get to that point.

Define most. All the aircraft at my operator (over 200 aircraft) requires more than a button push and the sequence is not automated. Well, I guess you would have to define automated. An MD11 is more automated than a B747-classic, but is still not a 1 button start.
 
SlamClick
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:31 am

We don't.
FADEC does.

Love that automation!
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
abbs380
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:42 pm

Airsgxs, AFAIK all internal combustion engines whether they are mounted on a car or boat or airliner require three things to run. Air, fuel and ignition. On jet airliners the air is provided by rotating the engine with a starter. When the engine is rotating fast enough you introduce fuel into the airstream by moving a fuel lever in the cockpit, this does two things (in basic terms) it opens a valve which supplies fuel to the injector nozzles which in turn discharge a fine fuel mixture into the burner cans, and it energizes the ignition system. The ignition system is sort of like a car spark plug only about 1000 times more powerfull. This system ignites the fuel and the engine accelerates to idle speed. As far as one button start goes I dont know. The A300 is the latest thing I have worked on. On the A300 you can just push one button, after everything else is set up, and the engine will spool up to speed on the starter. You still have to move the fuel lever to on at the appropriate time and then monitor engine acceleration utill the engine gets up to idle speed to make sure it does not get too hot. The starter is supposed to automatically cut out at 45% but You have to be sure that happens so it doesn't blow up. I think newer a/c may have a better system, but that's what many people deal with.
 
jeffry747
Posts: 906
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:50 pm

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 18):
basic rundown for a 744.

I learned something new about my favorite plane today. Thanks!
C'mon Big B, FLY!
 
futureuapilot
Posts: 1329
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:17 pm

Quoting RobK (Thread starter):
What about the external doors? Do these have a lock and key for them too?

The Cessnas, Piper's, Mooneys, and such do have keys to lock their doors. Not sure about the Cessna Citation, I'll have to check today at work. Most General Aviation aircraft do use keys on their doors.

-Sam
The Pilot is the highest form of life on Earth!
 
thegreatchecko
Posts: 689
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:56 pm

Quoting FutureUApilot (Reply 25):
The Cessnas, Piper's, Mooneys, and such do have keys to lock their doors. Not sure about the Cessna Citation, I'll have to check today at work. Most General Aviation aircraft do use keys on their doors.

The Cessnas I have flown had external door keys. The real question is, do they work.  Smile

Most GA aircraft, except the really basic types like the Piper Cub, will have some type of a door lock. This is why the AOPA and the TSA are constantly telling us pilots to lock our doors. Biz Jets do have keys and the King Air I have flow definitely has a key, even a spare behind a panel near the door (probably a smart thing for those nights at the bar after work).

GreatChecko
"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
 
Glom
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:00 pm

Of course, when it comes to Concorde, the answer would be "with great difficulty".
 
David L
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:57 am

Quoting Glom (Reply 27):
Of course, when it comes to Concorde, the answer would be "with great difficulty".

You think RobK is planning to steal one from a museum? Very responsible answer.  Smile
 
air2gxs
Posts: 1443
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:56 am

Abbs380,

I am well aware of the process to start an aircraft engine and what happens inside the engine. My point was that the process on most engines is far from automatic.

I guess I should define a fully automatic engine start: No intervention, except monitoring, after the start is initiated.

I don't know of any commercial airliners that meet this definition. Normally, the starter is engaged, fuel and ignition are introduced and the start is monitored. Intervention is required if the engine does not start properly.

Some of the newer engines out there may meet the definition, but I was refering to the statement in reply 20 that implied that most aircraft engine starts were fully automatic.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
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RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:27 am

Quoting SimProgrammer (Reply 13):
0=ADIRS - ALIGN LIGHTS ON

This is definitely wrong. The Align lights on mean that the respective ADIRUs are in the process of aligning themselves with axis of earth rotation to get their current latitude, which takes about 10 minutes. During this time the plane is not allowed to be moved, else the ADIRUs register an error and the aligning process has to be started all over again.
To switch the ADIRUs on you set the IRU switches to NAV (on some planes, e.g. the B757 there is also a ALIGN position of the switch). The ADIRUs will now do a self test and then starting the align process, with the align lights coming on. During the alignment time you'll enter either the current aircraft position into the FMC using the CDU, you confirm the last known position if the plane hasn't moved since it was shut down, or, on the MD-11 you confirm the position values offered to you by the GPS receiver. When the alignment process is complete, the ALIGN lights will go off and the full navigational data will appear on your EFIS screens. If there has been a problem (e.g. current position wrong or plane has been moved, the ALIGN lights will flash, at least on the planes I know the systems of).

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
troubleshooter
Posts: 420
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:22 am

RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:12 am

Quoting Air2gxs (Reply 29):
I guess I should define a fully automatic engine start: No intervention, except monitoring, after the start is initiated.

On the ERJ (after switching some more systems, of course...) you set the start switch momentarily to start and that´s it. The FADECs control the engine automatically. Ignition starts at about 15% N2, fuel is introduced at about 30% N2, starter cut-out at about 56 % N2. The engine then reaches its idle RPM. You have just to sit and monitor that everything is normal.

I think this meets your definition of a fully automatic engine start.
This job sucks!!! I love this job!!!
 
air2gxs
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 1:29 pm

RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:23 am

Quoting Troubleshooter (Reply 31):
On the ERJ (after switching some more systems, of course...) you set the start switch momentarily to start and that´s it. The FADECs control the engine automatically. Ignition starts at about 15% N2, fuel is introduced at about 30% N2, starter cut-out at about 56 % N2. The engine then reaches its idle RPM. You have just to sit and monitor that everything is normal.

I think this meets your definition of a fully automatic engine start.

Fuel and ignition introduced by FADEC? Cool. Does the FADEC system initiate an aborted start if it detects a problem, either with the start or itself?
 
troubleshooter
Posts: 420
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:22 am

RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:31 am

Quoting Air2gxs (Reply 32):
Fuel and ignition introduced by FADEC?

Fuel is introduced by the FCU. FADEC controls the FCU and schedules the fuel flow to the engine fuel nozzles.
Ignition is controlled by a FADEC signal to open or close the ignition relay.

Quoting Air2gxs (Reply 32):
Does the FADEC system initiate an aborted start if it detects a problem, either with the start or itself?

The FADECs activate "auto ignition or auto relight" if they detect a flameout and N2 is higher than 8500 rpm. There are two FADEC units per engine. Only one is in command, the other one is on "hot standby". If the unit in command fails there is an automatic transfer to the other unit.



The above is valid for the ERJ´s only. The systems on other aircrafts may vary. I´ve written it from memory (no books available at the moment) so someone may correct my faults if required.
This job sucks!!! I love this job!!!
 
air2gxs
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 1:29 pm

RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:40 pm

Quoting Troubleshooter (Reply 33):
Fuel is introduced by the FCU. FADEC controls the FCU and schedules the fuel flow to the engine fuel nozzles.
Ignition is controlled by a FADEC signal to open or close the ignition relay.

I realize that. I am quite familiar with FADEC (CF6, PW2000, PW4000) engines. I just have never heard of auto-start.

Quoting Troubleshooter (Reply 33):
The FADECs activate "auto ignition or auto relight" if they detect a flameout and N2 is higher than 8500 rpm. There are two FADEC units per engine. Only one is in command, the other one is on "hot standby". If the unit in command fails there is an automatic transfer to the other unit.

Doesn't answer the question. If the FADEC system senses a hung/hot start or a critical fault in the FADEC itself, will it abort the start or does it require intervention from the flight deck?
 
abbs380
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:25 am

RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:16 pm

Air2gxs, now that I think about it, what you are describing sounds like an apu start on lots of airliners, but not the REAL engines on any a/c I am aware of.
 
air2gxs
Posts: 1443
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 1:29 pm

RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:47 pm

Quoting Abbs380 (Reply 35):
Air2gxs, now that I think about it, what you are describing sounds like an apu start on lots of airliners, but not the REAL engines on any a/c I am aware of.

Yes, the APU on modern airliners is fully automatic and it appears that the ERJ may come real close.
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:32 pm

Quoting Air2gxs (Reply 34):
If the FADEC system senses a hung/hot start or a critical fault in the FADEC itself, will it abort the start or does it require intervention from the flight deck?

Those which I have operated would abort the start, motor the starter with the fuel off to clear unburnt fuel etc. all without pilot intervention. They will modify the start procedure to match existing conditions. Ultimately they will terminate the start attempts if the engine is not going to run properly. I've never seen it get to that point. I assume that you would get an ECAM message (Airbus) at this point.

More than once I have seen FADEC abort the first start attempt, motor briefly, then reintroduce fuel and get a good start. I assumed that the second attempt it metered fuel differently from the first attempt. That is not an option we really had in manual starting. Fuel was either ON or OFF.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:30 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 22):
We don't.
FADEC does.

Love that automation!

Ecellent summary of the start sequence of A 320 family.Exactly what I learned in the ground school.  bigthumbsup 
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
A/c train
Posts: 674
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2001 7:57 am

RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:03 am

heres a 752 start, from entering a dead airplane,
Select the Battery switch on, do the fire/ovht test for the APU, select APU switch to start hold for 2 secs then release. APU gen comes on line, you have power and bleed air supply.
Switch the APU bleed on and isolation valve in. Switch all the fuel pumps on, switch the Electric hydraulic pumps on for brake pressure, switch the anti-collision lights on and warn people your doing an engine run, select relevant engine starter to GND , solenoid latches it in and will release, look for valve light on and then monitor N3 rotation, at 30% move fuel master up and monitor parameters on EICAS, oil press/temp EGT etc.
 
kc7mmi
Posts: 834
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:15 am

RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:03 am

A/c train,
On the 752, what engines are you using? Or does it matter?
 
troubleshooter
Posts: 420
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:22 am

RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:12 am

Quoting Troubleshooter (Reply 33):
Doesn't answer the question. If the FADEC system senses a hung/hot start or a critical fault in the FADEC itself, will it abort the start or does it require intervention from the flight deck?

On the ERJ there is no feature like hung/hot start protection. If you have no light up 5 secs. after fuel introduction (ITT rise) the start must be manually abortet and you should do a dry motoring to remove the unburned fuel. The same is for a hot start. No automatic protection provided in this case. ITT limit for the engine start is 800°C or 1472°F.

If there is a fault in the FADEC unit which is in command, it will switch to the standy unit. Both units receive all data in real time and share information via an arinc data link. If the second FADEC fails too, the engine will shut down. There is no backup mode provided.

Hope this clears your question.
This job sucks!!! I love this job!!!
 
AvionicMech
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:28 am

RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:23 am

Quoting Kc7mmi (Reply 40):
A/c train,
On the 752, what engines are you using? Or does it matter?

Seen as A/c Train refers to watching the N3 rotation they will definitely be RB211's on his 752's, but the start up procedure will be basically the same, no matter what engine is fitted. The only difference will be that the fuel might be entered at a slightly lower speed etc.
 
kc7mmi
Posts: 834
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:15 am

RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:25 pm

Quoting AvionicMech (Reply 42):
Seen as A/c Train refers to watching the N3 rotation they will definitely be RB211's on his 752's

Yeah, I didn't know the RB211's had N3...thanks for the info tho.

As for Airbus's, I recall the captain only flipping the master switch to start the engine (this was during a gate start and I was running in and out of the a/c, so if there was anything else, I didn't see it). There is a button on the fwd/right section of the overhead panel that enables the flow of bleed air to the engine's starter motor. I only noticed them use it for testing, not actual engine start.
 
Derik737
Posts: 262
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:53 am

RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:19 pm

Ah, FADEC is for wussies.  Smile J/K

The most favorite engine I started in my career was the Rolls Royce Dart on our Fokker F-27's when I worked for Mesaba in DTW. You had to learn to "milk" the fuel controls (both the HPC and the Fuel Datum) to get a successful start. VERY easy to overtemp, so you had to be on the ball.

Basically to start the beast you would set your fuel datum at 50% for a warm day or 100% for a cold day (the fuel datum was controlled by an electrical switch on the center pedestal). Flip on the boost pumps, then engage the starter for the respective engine. At a certain RPM (can't remember, but I think it was around 1000), you would open the HPC. Now the fun began. You had to know when to start trimming the fuel datum back towards zero and then forward to 100% (back towards zero to prevent overtemp and then forward to keep the engine accelerating) . If you got a little behind, it was time to "milk" the HPC a bit to reduce the fuel into the burner cans.

Of course the other fun thing on the F-27's was taxiing without nosewheel steering (brakes, steering and gear were all air controlled). Lot of "kapishhhh" noise. And then there was the walnut shell engine cleaning process. A nice light show at night.  Wow!

And last, but not least, the water meth injection. Flip those switches up on the upper right panel and watch those torque indications crank up!  hyper 

Gosh I miss those days!
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 890
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: How Do You Start An Airliner?

Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:47 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
Jet engines are started with compressed air from a GPU or APU,

Minor correction here..GPU's (Ground Power Units) do not supply compressed air to the starter, they only supply electrical power to the aircraft while the engines are shut down. Air start units supply the compressed air to the starters when the APU is inop.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."

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