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Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:16 am

I was wondering why there is a curve upwards of the rear windows on Airbus widebodies. At first I thought it was the pictures I was looking at until I saw one myself. If anyone can explain my curiosity would be gratefully sated.


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liedetectors
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RE: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodi

Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:38 am

Being from Boeing, I am happy to say that this is due to an Airbus SNAFU (you can also see this on the IL-86). Airbus located the floor too low, so that near the rear of the plane, the underfloor cargo space did not provide enough room for the LD3 cargo containers. Instead of raising the entire floor structure and further reducing the passenger cabin volume, it was decided to simply raise the floor at the rear of the aircraft to allow enough room for the 64-inch tall cargo containers.
If it was said by us, then it must be true.
 
aeroweanie
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RE: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:10 pm

To add a little more to Liedetectors' answer: Airbus decided to upsweep the rear fuselage, instead of using a conical close out, like on the 757 and 767. This led to the problem that Liedetectors relates. This upwards bend in the floor makes loading main deck cargo on freighters difficult - the rear pallets have to be pushed up the incline.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:49 pm

Quoting AeroWeanie (Reply 2):
This upwards bend in the floor makes loading main deck cargo on freighters difficult - the rear pallets have to be pushed up the incline.

How steep is the Taper & what would be the Height difference.

This Taper makes the Windows look weird.Is it on all Airbus Widebodies.
Was there an Attempt to raise the floor height later on.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
SlamClick
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RE: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:32 pm

An incidental benefit of this is that the deck is nearly level in flight, back at the aft end of the cabin. Flight attendants start out of there with the cart and soon find themselves pushing it up hill.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
Hals
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RE: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:03 am

At normal pitch up during level flight I thought all F/A's had to push the cart "uphill"...whatever a/c they were flying in.

The Airbus taper maybe only makes it look worse...or is it really steeper ? One for the Airbus jockeys to answer methinks  Silly
 
FredT
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RE: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:31 am

Quoting Liedetectors (Reply 1):
Being from Boeing, I am happy to say that this is due to an Airbus SNAFU (you can also see this on the IL-86). Airbus located the floor too low, so that near the rear of the plane, the underfloor cargo space did not provide enough room for the LD3 cargo containers. Instead of raising the entire floor structure and further reducing the passenger cabin volume, it was decided to simply raise the floor at the rear of the aircraft to allow enough room for the 64-inch tall cargo containers.

Sooo... you are saying that Boeing unnecessarily reduced the passenger cabin volume in the entire cabin, just to be able to fit ULDs in the tail and have a level floor? Smart move! Yeah, they DO seem cramped...  Wink

Tongue-in-cheek, aircraft design is all compromises all the way - and there's rarely a 'right' answer to any given choice.

Cheers,
/Fred
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
 
andz
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RE: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:45 am

I first saw this on an A300, to be honest as a passenger you don't notice it when onboard.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
liedetectors
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RE: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:47 am

Quoting Andz (Reply 7):
I first saw this on an A300, to be honest as a passenger you don't notice it when onboard

Actually, you kind of do. I sat in the last row of a AA A300 one time and i definetly noticed the floor ramping up at the back. Good thing it didnt cut into the head room tho.
If it was said by us, then it must be true.
 
aerlingus330
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RE: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:48 am

Quoting Andz (Reply 7):
to be honest as a passenger you don't notice it when onboard.

I too have noticed it, but on an EI A330-300. Though, I thought that I would have noticed it more looking at the outside because it looks more of a rise than it really is onboard...  Smile

AerLingus330
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AR1300
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RE: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:38 pm

I noticed it when I sat in the last seat of AR's 342, IIRC it was 42 F.
It is like in a movie theater, sorta.

Mike
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jfkaua
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RE: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:49 pm

Quoting Andz (Reply 7):
I first saw this on an A300, to be honest as a passenger you don't notice it when onboard

Yea you do.. I was on an aa a300 and it was very obvious.. i even heard a "its because this is where the tail begins"
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:34 pm

Any cabin pics of this view.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
RedDragon
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RE: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:14 pm


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Photo © Christian Galliker
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Photo © Freight-Dawg - Airside Photography

The ramped section often comes across fairly obviously in cabin shots taken from the rear of the aircraft, although not always:
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Photo © Daniel Hamer
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Photo © Pierre Lacombe

I believe the deck angle is only something like 2-3° - less than it usually appears from the outside. Over in the KLM A330 thread in CivAv, I wondered why airlines don't tend to match their cheatlines to the windowline to disguise the rise a little.

Rich
 
RedDragon
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RE: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:05 pm

Just another couple of photos to illustrate how a sloping rear floor sometimes is, and sometimes isn't, obvious:
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Photo © Andrei Nesvetaev
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Photo © Joseph K.K. Lee

 Wink
 
GQfluffy
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RE: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:20 pm

Quoting RedDragon (Reply 13):
I wondered why airlines don't tend to match their cheatlines to the windowline to disguise the rise a little.

DL did...
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Photo © Oliver Brunke



But, to me, it didn't hide it all that well...
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
andz
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RE: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:39 am

Guess I was drunk then....lol
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
RedwoodFlyer
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Re: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:40 pm

So, will this be different on the A330-800/900neo? Are they fixing it? Or is it going to be the same?
 
WIederling
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Re: RE: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodi

Thu Nov 24, 2016 7:11 pm

liedetectors wrote:
Being from Boeing, I am happy to say that this is due to an Airbus SNAFU (you can also see this on the IL-86). Airbus located the floor too low, so that near the rear of the plane, the underfloor cargo space did not provide enough room for the LD3 cargo containers. Instead of raising the entire floor structure and further reducing the passenger cabin volume, it was decided to simply raise the floor at the rear of the aircraft to allow enough room for the 64-inch tall cargo containers.


That probably is wrong.
underfloor positions are ahead of the rear cargo door.
the upsweep starts over that door and rises to the tail.
underfloors that is the bulk cargo space.

What you get that way is a slightly wider floorspace in that area ( at the cost of increased encroachment at shoulder/head height.).
But the fuselage has a bit of upsweep banana shape anyway.

It should be visible on all Airbus 222" Xsection WB craft beginning with the A310 were the tail taper was made fuller for some more seats.
Murphy is an optimist
 
LH707330
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Re: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:37 am

Airbus didn't screw that up, the original A300 had a flat window line. What happened is they redesigned the tail on the A310 to fit more LD3s in the main hold, which pushed the taper back. To give the bulk cargo area more space, they moved the floor up. I'd call it more of a "workaround" than a "screwup."
 
Viscount724
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Re: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:27 am

RedwoodFlyer wrote:
So, will this be different on the A330-800/900neo? Are they fixing it? Or is it going to be the same?


For those who haven't noticed, this thread is 11 years old. When people resurrect such old threads I wish they would mention it so you don't waste time reading it all again before realizing that it's many years old. How do peoiple even find such old threads to resurrect?
 
WIederling
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Re: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:30 am

Viscount724 wrote:
For those who haven't noticed, this thread is 11 years old.


so it took 11 years to fix some wrong statements made? :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
RedwoodFlyer
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Re: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:39 pm

Viscount724 wrote:
RedwoodFlyer wrote:
So, will this be different on the A330-800/900neo? Are they fixing it? Or is it going to be the same?


For those who haven't noticed, this thread is 11 years old. When people resurrect such old threads I wish they would mention it so you don't waste time reading it all again before realizing that it's many years old. How do peoiple even find such old threads to resurrect?


Yup. 11 years old. Is that a problem? If I had started a new thread, people would have told me, "It's already been discussed, do a search!". So, I did what people always say to do, and what the site says to do. Search for your answer first, before starting a new thread. People bitch at you one way and then bitch at you the other.

So far, it seems no one has an answer to my question.
 
ikolkyo
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Re: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:39 pm

RedwoodFlyer wrote:
Viscount724 wrote:
RedwoodFlyer wrote:
So, will this be different on the A330-800/900neo? Are they fixing it? Or is it going to be the same?


For those who haven't noticed, this thread is 11 years old. When people resurrect such old threads I wish they would mention it so you don't waste time reading it all again before realizing that it's many years old. How do peoiple even find such old threads to resurrect?


Yup. 11 years old. Is that a problem? If I had started a new thread, people would have told me, "It's already been discussed, do a search!". So, I did what people always say to do, and what the site says to do. Search for your answer first, before starting a new thread. People bitch at you one way and then bitch at you the other.

So far, it seems no one has an answer to my question.


I highly doubt people would linked this thread and said it has already been discussed if your question wasn't answered. By the way the answer is that it will be the same story on the A330neo.
 
RedwoodFlyer
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Re: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:59 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
RedwoodFlyer wrote:
Viscount724 wrote:

For those who haven't noticed, this thread is 11 years old. When people resurrect such old threads I wish they would mention it so you don't waste time reading it all again before realizing that it's many years old. How do peoiple even find such old threads to resurrect?


Yup. 11 years old. Is that a problem? If I had started a new thread, people would have told me, "It's already been discussed, do a search!". So, I did what people always say to do, and what the site says to do. Search for your answer first, before starting a new thread. People bitch at you one way and then bitch at you the other.

So far, it seems no one has an answer to my question.


I highly doubt people would linked this thread and said it has already been discussed if your question wasn't answered. By the way the answer is that it will be the same story on the A330neo.


Well, there should be no problem with searching and replying to an old thread. The fact that it is from 11 years ago is on no consequence. It simply doesn't matter. It's still a valid discussion topic.

I was hoping they might fix this weird anomaly with the A330. It's a great plane. It just looks....weird. No plane they have manufactured since the A300/310 has had this. Not the A320, not the A380, and not the A350. Only the A330/340 (the 340 being basically a 330 with two extra engines, otherwise, the same plane on a basic level).
 
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longhauler
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Re: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:14 pm

LH707330 wrote:
Airbus didn't screw that up, the original A300 had a flat window line.

Right back to ship number one, the A300 also had the cabin floor (and thus the window line) curve upward toward the aft.



You can see it on this old A300B4-103. The cabin floor curved up just aft of the emergency exit aft of the wing.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
WIederling
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Re: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:27 pm

longhauler wrote:
You can see it on this old A300B4-103. The cabin floor curved up just aft of the emergency exit aft of the wing.


I had look at a couple of A300B1/273 tails and couldn't initially see it.
Though looking closer it is "there".

Nonetheless it seems to be more visible with the A310 ( and onwards ) tail redesign?
Murphy is an optimist
 
ikolkyo
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Re: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:32 pm

RedwoodFlyer wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
RedwoodFlyer wrote:

Yup. 11 years old. Is that a problem? If I had started a new thread, people would have told me, "It's already been discussed, do a search!". So, I did what people always say to do, and what the site says to do. Search for your answer first, before starting a new thread. People bitch at you one way and then bitch at you the other.

So far, it seems no one has an answer to my question.


I highly doubt people would linked this thread and said it has already been discussed if your question wasn't answered. By the way the answer is that it will be the same story on the A330neo.


Well, there should be no problem with searching and replying to an old thread. The fact that it is from 11 years ago is on no consequence. It simply doesn't matter. It's still a valid discussion topic.

I was hoping they might fix this weird anomaly with the A330. It's a great plane. It just looks....weird. No plane they have manufactured since the A300/310 has had this. Not the A320, not the A380, and not the A350. Only the A330/340 (the 340 being basically a 330 with two extra engines, otherwise, the same plane on a basic level).


I never notice the windows when I see the A330/340 I think they did a good job making it subtle.

Also the problem about bringing this thread to life is your question is about the A330neo, that wasn't around 11 years ago. (Unless you consider the A350 MK1) You should have been perfectly fine to make a new thread on the neo.
 
RedwoodFlyer
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Re: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:11 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
RedwoodFlyer wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:

I highly doubt people would linked this thread and said it has already been discussed if your question wasn't answered. By the way the answer is that it will be the same story on the A330neo.


Well, there should be no problem with searching and replying to an old thread. The fact that it is from 11 years ago is on no consequence. It simply doesn't matter. It's still a valid discussion topic.

I was hoping they might fix this weird anomaly with the A330. It's a great plane. It just looks....weird. No plane they have manufactured since the A300/310 has had this. Not the A320, not the A380, and not the A350. Only the A330/340 (the 340 being basically a 330 with two extra engines, otherwise, the same plane on a basic level).


I never notice the windows when I see the A330/340 I think they did a good job making it subtle.

Also the problem about bringing this thread to life is your question is about the A330neo, that wasn't around 11 years ago. (Unless you consider the A350 MK1) You should have been perfectly fine to make a new thread on the neo.


NEO, or CEO, it's all still an A330. I did nothing wrong by searching for my answer and replying to this thread. Some people need to really find something more worthwhile to complain about.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:52 am

RedwoodFlyer wrote:
So, will this be different on the A330-800/900neo? Are they fixing it? Or is it going to be the same?
fix? What makes you think its broken?

Fred
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HAWK21M
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Re: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:59 pm

This is one old thread....looks like it got bumped upwards.....

Why will it be different unless the entire fuselage structure gets manufactured totally differently..then it would not be the same type.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
LH707330
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Re: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:01 pm

longhauler wrote:
LH707330 wrote:
Airbus didn't screw that up, the original A300 had a flat window line.

Right back to ship number one, the A300 also had the cabin floor (and thus the window line) curve upward toward the aft.



You can see it on this old A300B4-103. The cabin floor curved up just aft of the emergency exit aft of the wing.

I stand corrected....

Is it perhaps more pronounced on the later tail design?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Why The Up-Curve Of Windows On Airbus Widebodies?

Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:00 pm

LH707330 wrote:
Is it perhaps more pronounced on the later tail design?


No, I think the Olympic livery just 'hides' it - there's a subtle widening of the cheat line towards the rear, so the rising line of the windows isn't noticeable. Find any side-on shot of an A300/A310 and draw a line alone the lower edge of the windows starting at the front. You'll notice the last 10 windows (on the A300 anyway) rise above that line.

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