lastordu
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Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:02 am

I know this a stupid topic. But just moved to RDU and it rains here a lot. So I was wandering do pilots use the windshield wiper just when taxing or do they use them on landing and takeoff. It is hard to see from the spot that I go to at the airport.
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Btriple7
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Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:09 am

Pilots do use windshield wipers while taxiing. I am not sure about takeoff, though. The plane is going so fast, the rain streams off anyway

Here's some pictures: (Couldn't find any in the rain)


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Photo © Alexandru Magurean



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Photo © Victor Garciamontes



Regards,
Btriple7

[Edited 2005-09-07 22:12:33]
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EMBQA
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Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:10 am

In simple terms... Yes..
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
SlamClick
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:43 am

Some use bleed air to keep the rain off:

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Photo © Renato Burkhart


Some use wipers:

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Photo © Alexandru Magurean


Some just use their blistering speed:

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Photo © Andrew Leach



And then there are helicopters.
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schooner
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:54 am

Depends on how heavy the rain is but generally (not simply!) yes, we use them during all stages of the flight (when we are actually looking out of the window!).

Cheers.
Untouched and Alive
 
SlamClick
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:33 am

Quoting Lastordu (Thread starter):
So I was wandering do pilots use the windshield wiper just when taxing or do they use them on landing and takeoff.

Didn't see this part.

Most wiper controls will have a speed control that should work like the interval wiper setting in your car. Thing is, though, that for some reason airplane wipers are really loud and kind of annoying. Older Boeing wipers are really annoying.

Also, your speed affects the apparent intensity of the rain. Going faster, even light rain will seem heavy because you gather so many more drops per second than you would standing still. So at slow speeds, like taxiing, the PNT (pilot not taxiing) will often turn them on and off from time to time.

Short answer - as needed.

The first real six-axis flight simulator I ever flew surprised me in this area. When "rain" was part of the airport weather conditions selected for its computer it blurred the picture outside unless you turned on the wipers. Then it synthesized the noise quite accurately. Made me laugh!
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Tornado82
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:02 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 5):
So at slow speeds, like taxiing, the PNT (pilot not taxiing) will often turn them on and off from time to time.

I saw this on a Commutair B1900 @ FWA on a rainy Sunday Aug 14th... I found it kind of funny that my 1999 ZX2 had delay/pulse/intermittent (whatever you want to call them) wipers and a multi-million dollar aircraft the pilot had to flip the switch himself.
 
amtrosie
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:32 am

Slam Click, hats off again! There is no better wiper than your "blistering speed" example. Oh, how right you are about the noisy wipers on the Boeing "Jurassics".

As always Slam says it best!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:48 pm

Mainly used while Taxying. T/O & Landings too depending on the Weather & the PIC.

Quoting Amtrosie (Reply 7):
how right you are about the noisy wipers on the Boeing "Jurassics".

Can never forget those  Smile
The Hydrophobic Coatings were a big help.
regds
MEL
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Bellerophon
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:38 pm

Lastordu

On one aircraft type the windscreen wipers were never used during the taxy-out or for take-off.


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Photo © A J Best
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Photo © Paul Dopson - AirTeamImages



They were only used for landing and the taxy-in!

Anyone care to guess why?

Regards

Bellerophon
 
FredT
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:52 pm

Had to be reset by MX somehow between being used and flying supersonic?

You did say we were allowed to guess!  Smile

Cheers,
Fred
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HAWK21M
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:05 pm

Quoting Bellerophon (Reply 9):

Should have been used for Taxi-out too.  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
SlamClick
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:14 pm

The windshield they wipe is covered by the outer one in flight?
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Jetlagged
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:31 pm

The inner windshield would have been exposed during taxi out and takeoff with the nose drooped to the first notch.

My wild guess is that Concorde's windshield heat was so powerful that it evaporated rain drops on contact Big grin
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SlamClick
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:10 am

The Boeing 2707 had the Starwars laser system to vaporize the raindrops before the plane collides with them.

(kidding!)
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Euclid
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:36 am

I think I'm going to win the prize for the dumbest guess ever on Airliners, but what the heck, nobody will be able to see my red face anyway, so here goes!

The Concorde did not use the wipers on taxy-out or on take-off because they did not take off in the rain?

Stupid, I know, but it's all I could think of. I don't know a lot about Concorde.

Regards

Euclid
 
Bellerophon
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:27 pm

FredT came the closest!

When the windscreen wipers were turned off after use, if they did not stow themselves in exactly the correct parked position, then they became an obstruction in the path of the visor as it was raised. In this situation, a microswitch would prevent any movement of the visor.

A close look at the second picture will show how tight the clearance was.
  • If the wipers didn't park correctly, the visor could not be raised.

  • If the visor could not be raised, then the nose could not be raised.

  • If the nose could not be raised, then supersonic flight was not allowed.

  • If supersonic flight was not allowed, then there was insufficient fuel onboard for a subsonic Atlantic crossing, so fuel jettison and re-land!
All in all, it was preferable and easier to put up with some rain on the windscreens, rather than risk a stuck visor and an unscheduled return.

Of course, taking-off in July from HAWK21M's home base would have been a different matter! Big grin

Best Regards to all

Bellerophon
 
Euclid
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:30 pm

Quoting Bellerophon (Reply 16):
When the windscreen wipers were turned off after use, if they did not stow themselves in exactly the correct parked position, then they became an obstruction in the path of the visor as it was raised.

Thanks for the answer, sir! After my stupid guess I've been wondering about it the whole night.

Cheers!

Euclid
 
undehoulli
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:39 pm

One of our instructors here used to be a Saab 340 Captain before he went to Northwest - got furloughed, and is now back at UND. Anyhow, he told us about a time in the Saab (not his Saab) when the windshield wiper was turned on above its design speed....It departed the window, hit the left engine and caused it to fail, and when the wiper blade penetrated the fuselage and went into a passenger's leg. Three problems now...decompression, passenger with windshield wiper in leg, and engine failure. Where do you find this one in the QRH!!???
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SlamClick
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:05 pm

Quoting Undehoulli (Reply 18):
Three problems now...decompression, passenger with windshield wiper in leg, and engine failure. Where do you find this one in the QRH!!???

"Decompression / Engine Failure / Skewered Passenger checklist please!"

Doesn't your plane have one of these?
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EMBQA
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:45 am

Quoting Undehoulli (Reply 18):
One of our instructors here used to be a Saab 340 Captain before he went to Northwest - got furloughed, and is now back at UND. Anyhow, he told us about a time in the Saab (not his Saab) when the windshield wiper was turned on above its design speed....It Departed the window, hit the left engine and caused it to fail, and when the wiper blade penetrated the fuselage and went into a passenger's leg. Three problems now...decompression, Passenger with windshield wiper in leg, and engine failure.

Actually that is not 'fully' what happened. The aircraft, flying at night flew through a flock of Snow Geese. One of the Geese hit the nose area of the plane and took out the Capt's side windshield wiper. The airflow pushed the wiper into the LH Prop, which in turn slung it into the fuselage. It punctured the fuselage and struck the passenger in the leg seated in the second seat. He was injured in the leg and required a medical attention. The engine did not fail due to the wiper, but the prop was damaged. The engine was damaged by a second Snow Goose it ingested..!! The aircraft also required extensive repairs to several leading edges due to bird strikes. I remember when I walked on the not long after it happened it stunk and was a real mess. The hole was small enough that the plane did not depressurize. Some where in my files I have all the pictures..!1 What a mess.

[Edited 2005-09-09 22:48:07]
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Slcpilot
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:20 am

OK, I'll play.

So what about the Gulfstream 550? I don't think it has wipers.


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Photo © Sébastien Le Feyer



If it can do without, why does the 787 have them? I would have guessed the weight/cost/drag/expense would have been shed.

Any comments?

SLCPilot

[Edited 2005-09-10 02:31:19]

[Edited 2005-09-10 02:35:41]
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HAWK21M
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:48 am

Quoting Undehoulli (Reply 18):



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 20):
Some where in my files I have all the pictures

If you locate them.Post them.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
jetstar
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:47 am

The Lockheed JetStar has windshield wipers on both the left and right windshields, the center windshield does not have a wiper.


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Photo © Jordi Grife - Iberian Spotters




There is a speed restriction of 205 knots indicated so the wipers can be used on takeoff, approach and landing. The wiper system has 2 speeds, high speed which operates the wipers at 275 strokes per minute and the low speed at about half the strokes. The system consists of 2 motors above the pilot’s heads, one for each wiper. A flexible shaft from the motor is connected to a converter that converts the rotary action of the motor to the back and forth oscillating action of the wipers. Each wiper system is separate from the other but jointly controlled by one switch.

The wiper system is controlled by a switch on the overhead panel above the pilot’s head. The switch has 4 positions, park, off, high and low. When the wipers are stopped, they will stop wherever the power is cut off. To place the wipers in the park position, the switch is turned to park and the wipers will go to the most inboard position on the windshieldas shown in this photo.

The windshield wiper system is very noisy and distracting, especially during approach when total concentration is required so we never used them in flight. Once on the ground we would use the low speed if the rain was heavy and affecting our vision.

One time during cruise at altitude, the pilot’s wiper came slightly off the part position. The chief pilot was flying the airplane at the time so he reached up and turned the wiper switch to park to repark the wiper. Our airspeed was above the windshield operating speed so when the motor tried to park the wiper, the gear in the converter stripped and allowed the wiper arm to extend to the opposite side of the windshield. The air noise from the wiper was loud enough that we could not talk to each other unless we shouted. When we landed, I took the pilot's wiper arm off the external shaft, which was held on by one nut and we continued the trip without the pilot’s windshield wiper arm. We were lucky that the wiper assembly or blade was not torn off of the airplane, because Lockheed had a bulletin about inspecting the wiper system for integrity because if they were torn off for any reason the blades could be ingested into one of the engines that would result in an engine failure.

The chief pilot, who was a first class idiot anyway learned a lesson which cost the company a lot of money for a new windshield wiper converter, keep your hands off the wiper switch during flight. As chief of maintenance I had to appoave all maintenance and parts bills before I handed them to the chief pilot, he never said anything when I presented him with the bill from Lockheed for the part, he just signed it ok for payment. But if it was one of the other pilots in the flight department he would have read us the riot act and threatened to take it out of our pay
 
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jumbojim747
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:16 pm

Quoting Schooner (Reply 4):
yes, we use them during all stages of the flight (when we are actually looking out of the window!).



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 23):
keep your hands off the wiper switch during flight

So can they be used inflght or not.
Cheers
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HAWK21M
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:44 pm

The B737 Classics had common Knobs & the confusion to move the Engine Start sw & Wiper switch was always present to those who were hasty.  Smile
regds
MEL
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FrancoBlanco
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:59 pm

Well, I still confuse the indicator with the wiper on my car sometimes...

Although confusing Engine Start and wiper could be worse!  Smile

Sebastian
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HAWK21M
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:37 am

Quoting FrancoBlanco (Reply 26):
Although confusing Engine Start and wiper could be worse

Depending on which knob you turn  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
dan2002
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:36 am

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 21):
OK, I'll play.

So what about the Gulfstream 550? I don't think it has wipers.

I believe it has some type of heating element that dries the rain or repels it or something. I know thats not the right termonology, but I think the point is there.


Dan
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HAWK21M
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RE: Windshield Wipers On Planes?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:22 pm

I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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