Fly2HMO
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Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:21 am

I've been searching a lot for pictures showing the innards of VORs, but the closest thing I've found are the insides of NDB, which just look like a bunch of copper coils in a shack. I know how they work, but it seems like if the insides were top secret  Wink

Even if they're as boring as an NDB, I'm still curious.  angel 
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:01 pm

I just googled VOR and this seems to be the best picture I could find... don't know if its correct.

 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:27 pm

http://www.madbbs.com/users/jpaden/electrical/bigimages/013-VOR-antenna.jpg


Aircraft mounted.The Best I could locate.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:34 am

Thanks MEL and ArmitageShanks. But I think I didn't explain myself well enough.

I was looking for pictures of the inside of the electronics shack of VOR stations.



This pic is of a VORTAC. The actuall VOR antenna is the inverted cone, and the top cylinder is the TACAN antenna. And the base of the VOR is always the radio shack. But i've never seen pictures of what's actually inside the shack.

thx  Smile
 
777wt
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:53 am

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 3):
This pic is of a VORTAC. The actuall VOR antenna is the inverted cone, and the top cylinder is the TACAN antenna. And the base of the VOR is always the radio shack. But i've never seen pictures of what's actually inside the shack.

Pretty sure they get checked out once in a while inside. Gotta find someone who works on those things.
 
corey07850
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:06 am

Quoting 777WT (Reply 4):
Gotta find someone who works on those things.

AKA: the FAA.... Even as Airport Operations we didn't have access to them (or Localizer/Glideslopes too).

The inside of lighting vaults (basically where all the circuits for the different zonesof lights are located) of airports are pretty interesting to see though.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:33 am

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 5):
The inside of lighting vaults (basically where all the circuits for the different zonesof lights are located) of airports are pretty interesting to see though.

Got pics? Big grin
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:46 am

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fe/D-VOR_PEK.JPG/800px-D-VOR_PEK.JPG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/VORTAC_TGO_Aichtal_Germany_01.JPG/800px-VORTAC_TGO_Aichtal_Germany_01.JPG

No Pics on the Insides though.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
corey07850
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:47 am

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 6):

Got pics? Big grin

Unfortunately no  Smile
 
777wt
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 6:15 pm

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 8):
Unfortunately no

Describe it Big grin
 
corey07850
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:49 pm

Quoting 777WT (Reply 9):

Describe it Big grin

Well our vault was adjacent to the VOR, and the exterior is essentially a brick building plastered in High Voltage signs. Inside is basically rows and rows of what resemble computer servers/mainframes. They are labeled based on what circuit of lights they are for (different zones, as well as what the "mandatory" lights are on). It's pretty noisy inside, being a powerhouse and all, and there is a large amount of ventilation to keep everything cool. It might not be the most exciting thing in the world, but for a normal little 30' x 30' brick building, and knowing what importance the place has, it's pretty cool...

Here is an image I found of google, it's not accurate, but it gives you somewhat of an idea of what I'm trying to describe:

 
Woodreau
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:41 am

TLAR - that looks about right .  Smile I'd imagine the electronics for the VOR to be similar.

Has anyone ever seen the electronics for the ASOS?
Everyone has seen all the instruments outside, but the sensors collect all the data and send it into a server rack located inside one of the airport buildings which houses all the electronics and battery UPS. At my home airport, the server rack was located in the back of the FBO's office. There's a big WARNING sticker on the outside of the rack warning of severe and swift federal penalties for tampering with the electronics inside the server rack.

That pic above also looks like the inside of the computer room at a TRACON, where the computers merge the primary radar data and secondary transponder beacons with the data tags and send it to the radar distribution switchboard to be displayed on the controller's screens.

The picture also looks like the computer room on an AEGIS warship where all the radar data and data tags are combined and sent up to CIC.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
dan2002
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:46 am

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 10):
Well our vault was adjacent to the VOR, and the exterior is essentially a brick building plastered in High Voltage signs. Inside is basically rows and rows of what resemble computer servers/mainframes. They are labeled based on what circuit of lights they are for (different zones, as well as what the "mandatory" lights are on). It's pretty noisy inside, being a powerhouse and all, and there is a large amount of ventilation to keep everything cool. It might not be the most exciting thing in the world, but for a normal little 30' x 30' brick building, and knowing what importance the place has, it's pretty cool...

Here is an image I found of google, it's not accurate, but it gives you somewhat of an idea of what I'm trying to describe:

Amazing isnt it, reminds me of the time a few weeks ago I got up into the E&E bay of a 738.


Dan
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:08 am

Quoting Dan2002 (Reply 12):
Amazing isnt it, reminds me of the time a few weeks ago I got up into the E&E bay of a 738.

There a Way big Difference between the Two  Smile Look wise Too.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
dan2002
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:02 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 13):
There a Way big Difference between the Two Look wise Too.
regds
MEL

I know that, but its the same basic principal. Small space, alot of important stuff.

Dan
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
 
efohdee
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:27 am

This is a cool topic. I've always wondered about the different designs of the VOR, VORTAC, VOR/DME, And TACAN antenaes.
Most TACAN antennae I've seen look like the cylinder in the picture posted by MEL, and the small objects in a circle around the main antennae are related to DME, I'm not sure.
The VOR/DME (L) antennae at DeKalb Peachtree PDK:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © PeachAir
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Logan Anderson


The VORTAC (H) at Atlanta ATL can be seen in the background:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Agustin Anaya
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Agustin Anaya



Any pictures of an NDB antennae? I've done some low fly-by's but I can never get a good look at one. They seem to consist of one or two simple poles.
 
corey07850
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:49 am

Quoting Efohdee (Reply 15):
Any pictures of an NDB antennae?



Pretty much it....
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:29 am

I found this very interesting website. It's about navaid spotting. (sort of)

http://www.hoppie.nl/beacons/

I wish the US had a more dense VOR coverage. VOR spotting is starting to sound more and more interesting the more I look into it.

How about VORspotting.net?  scratchchin  Big grin
 
777wt
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:32 am

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 17):
I found this very interesting website. It's about navaid spotting. (sort of)

http://www.hoppie.nl/beacons/

I wish the US had a more dense VOR coverage. VOR spotting is starting to sound more and more interesting the more I look into it.

How about VORspotting.net?

My private pilot instructor got an newsletter from the FAA (don't know the date) and told me the VOR's will be phased out with only select remain in service while GPS will be the primary nav with VOR being secondary.
It said something to 2010 or 2020 that will take effect.
 
777wt
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:12 pm

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 10):
Well our vault was adjacent to the VOR, and the exterior is essentially a brick building plastered in High Voltage signs. Inside is basically rows and rows of what resemble computer servers/mainframes. They are labeled based on what circuit of lights they are for (different zones, as well as what the "mandatory" lights are on). It's pretty noisy inside, being a powerhouse and all, and there is a large amount of ventilation to keep everything cool. It might not be the most exciting thing in the world, but for a normal little 30' x 30' brick building, and knowing what importance the place has, it's pretty cool...

Now that makes me wonder how big/powerful is the backup generator for just the airport's system.
 
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TripleDelta
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:44 pm

Quoting 777WT (Reply 19):
Now that makes me wonder how big/powerful is the backup generator for just the airport's system.

An H-VOR (High power VOR) for enroute navigation pumps out about 200W worth of power, while the T-VOR (Terminal VOR), for navigation within the TMA, is at about 25-50W depending on the range (as a general rule of thumb, 1W would be approximately 1NM for smaller distances), so a single VOR wouldn't put much of a strain on the backup generator (as compared to the lights, ILS, ATC thingies and other high-power devices).
No plane, no gain.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:51 pm

Quoting Dan2002 (Reply 14):
Small space, alot of important stuff.

Like a Safe. Cheers  Smile

Quoting Efohdee (Reply 15):
Any pictures of an NDB antennae




http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=NDB+antenna/v=2/SID=w/l=IVI/SIG=12c79776e/EXP=1126594091/*-http%3A//golum.riv.csu.edu.au/~lsadle01/images/ndbthum.jpg

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
efohdee
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:47 pm

Thanks! I knew some NDB's had one antennae, others had two. Now I know for sure! Yeah I been Navaid spotting!!!
 
777wt
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:07 am

Quoting TripleDelta (Reply 20):
An H-VOR (High power VOR) for enroute navigation pumps out about 200W worth of power, while the T-VOR (Terminal VOR), for navigation within the TMA, is at about 25-50W depending on the range (as a general rule of thumb, 1W would be approximately 1NM for smaller distances), so a single VOR wouldn't put much of a strain on the backup generator (as compared to the lights, ILS, ATC thingies and other high-power devices).

How about the lights on the runways and taxi-ways.
 
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TripleDelta
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:37 am

The power output of runway lights varies with their type and intensity, but generally, as far as I can recall, the important lights (threshold, end, edge) of a major airport runway are in the 150-200W-per-light range at full intensity.

However, when switching to a generator, the lights would be dimmed to a reduced intensity, based on the wx situation, and all equipment on airside not vital to safe a/c operations would be disconnected.
No plane, no gain.
 
corey07850
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:25 am

Quoting 777WT (Reply 19):
Now that makes me wonder how big/powerful is the backup generator for just the airport's system.

here is some info I found on CVG's website courtesy of google....

"Behind the Scenes

* Large diesel-powered generators are capable of supplying electricity to key areas in the event of a power outage.

* Maintaining airfield lighting and signage is a critical part of the electrical crew's job.

* Electrical panels control hundreds of security doors throughout the airport and are themselves controlled through fiber-optic cables.

* Three underground cables are each capable of supplying 10 megawatts at 12,500 volts. Inside the airport's main electrical vault, individual electric meters and circuit breakers are the size of refrigerators.

* Sophisticated computers monitor the power supply, especially in such critical areas as airfield lighting and security.

* Replacing light bulbs at the airport is a full-time job for two people, especially since many of the lights are several stories off the ground."

http://www.cvgairport.com/airport/fun/c_elect.shtml
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:50 am

Quoting Efohdee (Reply 22):
Thanks! I knew some NDB's had one antennae, others had two. Now I know for sure! Yeah I been Navaid spotting!!!

The two antennae ones are really just support towers in a clothesline type setup. The actualy NDB wire hangs down from the middle of this.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:47 am

I found something close:

It's a tacan in antarctica.
First time I see a navaid on sleighs 

http://www.sethwhite.org/images/airfields/pegasus/tacan%20shelter.jpg
http://www.sethwhite.org/images/airfields/pegasus/dave%20with%20tacan%202.jpg

And somebody actually lived in th shed   

http://www.sethwhite.org/images/airfields/first%20flight/sw%20in%20rats%20nest.jpg


http://www.sethwhite.org/pegasus.htm
http://www.sethwhite.org/first%20flight.htm

EDIT: I came across this. The author thinks it's a very old vor. Heck, its full of bulbs.

http://www.yipyap.com/radio_stuff/VOR/

[Edited 2005-09-13 22:56:08]

EDIT again!!!

Found even more. Still, not inside the shack.



http://www.tokai-bt.soumu.go.jp/musen/tyuubukokusai/

[Edited 2005-09-13 23:03:10]
 
unattendedbag
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:00 am

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 27):
And somebody actually lived in th shed

That's got to totally blow!
Slower traffic, keep right
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:27 am

I also found a very detailed explanation on how navaids work in here:

http://www.trevord.com/navaids/index.htm

From what I see in the pictures, does the UK have only DVORs?
 
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TripleDelta
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:47 am

Hmm... DVOR is generally used in areas where multiple signal reflections from surrounding objects are possible (buildings, cliffs, prominent terrain objects) - places like Lugano, Switzerland and Kai Tak. But I think they're also considerably more accurate than CVOR, even though they're more expensive to build.
No plane, no gain.
 
iakobos
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RE: Any Pics Of The Inside Of A VOR Antenna?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:56 am

Quoting Efohdee (Reply 22):
I knew some NDB's had one antennae, others had two

No, an NDB has a single antenna (aerial for the Brits).
Since "high performance" is not requested the radiator is either a T-type antenna (like pic 3 of Hawk21M above) or a short vertical.

"Short" relates here to the ratio between the length/height of the antenna and the wavelength.
Eg. 350KHz is 857m wavelength, and a good performing vertical (1/4 wave type) would have to be around 200m high...
To avoid this, "loaded" antennas are used, ie. they are shorter but resonance is achieved by introducing a coil at the bottom (vertical) or a capacitive hat (the T)

NDB (output) power are in the 25-150W range.

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