TimePilot
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What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:19 am

First of all I'm assuming that aircraft have wheel brakes. What would happen if you landed with them on? Would the tires blow? Would the plane flip all over the place or would it just smell funny from the over heated rubber?

Can you even land with the brakes on? Do you have to be pushing a pedal or something?  blush  (sorry, no idea how it works ...)  blush 
 
caboclo
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:24 am

Aircraft wheel brakes are operated by pushing on the top of the rudder pedals. It is possible to land with the brakes on; if you do, you blow a whole lot of tires. Before landing, the pilot must be sure to slide his feet back till only his toes are on the bottom of the rudder pedals.
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SlamClick
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:32 am

Most modern airplanes do have wheel brakes on the maingear only. Mostly they are operated by pressing the top of each rudder pedal. This gives differential braking for each side, so they can be used for steering.

Airliners and most civil jets have anti-skid systems and most anti-skid systems have "locked wheel" protection which would allow the wheel to turn if you landed with your size-twelves planted on the brake pedals.

Older systems would not protect you in this case and blown tires and even wheel fires were a common enough result.

The older Beech Barons I flew had a parking brake knob on the bottom of the instrument panel. For parking brake you would apply regular wheel brakes, then pull the knob, trapping that brake pressure. (a system commonly in use) Well, it was known to have happened that someone would inadvertently pull that knob. Then every movement of the rudder pedals, if your feet were positioned high on the pedal would trap brake fluid under pressure. Landing with locked mains was the usual result.

I had an uncommanded locked wheel landing once in a Cessna 404 twin. It was on runway 24Right at LAX and the wheel never rotated at all. It skidded down the runway and I was lucky to be able to slide clear of the runways onto a taxiway. The plane had Cessna Citation jet maintires on it, and this sawed the bottom off the tire and ground almost half the wheel rim away. I was lucky not to have had a brake fire.
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troubleshooter
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:46 am

Modern anti-skid systems incorporate a feature called "touchdown protection". This should prevent landing with brakes applied.

Here is a quote from the B737NG AMM describing the system:

Touchdown Protection:
The touchdown protection releases brake pressure from
wheels 2 and 4 while the airplane is in the air and remains
active until 0.7 seconds after the corresponding wheel spins up
to 70 knots, or when the ground mode has been sensed
continuously for three (3) seconds. The PSEU supplies the air or
ground signals to the AACU, (system 1 for wheel 2 and system 2
for wheel 4).

Touchdown/Hydroplane Protection:
The touchdown/hydroplane protection compares wheel speed
data to ADIRU ground speed data. When the wheel speed
decreases to 50 knots less than ground speed, the touchdown/
hydroplane protection releases pressure to the brake. The
hydroplane function supplies protection to wheels 1 and 3 only.


If an aircraft lands with brakes applied, all wheels will be damaged and the pilot will have a cup of tea with his chief pilot. Big grin
In my air force days I have worked on C-160 and one day a crew landed on aircraft with the parking brake applied (no anti skid protection) and all eight main wheels and brakes were scrapped! Big smoke on the runway...
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Electech6299
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:51 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 2):
I had an uncommanded locked wheel landing once in a Cessna 404 twin.

Whoa! Cool story- now that we know the ending and can look back. I can only imagine the smell! (and I really don't want to!) I would probably wet my pants watching it on film....

What was the cause? A hydraulic issue like the Barons? Or a seized/frozen brake?

BTW, my answer to the post title (from a passenger's perspective, but perhap's a pilot's as well?): plug your nose and pray.....

-Electech
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troubleshooter
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:56 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 2):
Airliners and most civil jets have anti-skid systems and most anti-skid systems have "locked wheel" protection which would allow the wheel to turn if you landed with your size-twelves planted on the brake pedals.

Locked wheel protection is a slightly different story. It compares the speeds of wheel pairs. If the anti skid system senses a certain difference between the wheels it releases brake pressure from the slower wheel.

Here again a quote from the B737NG AMM:
Locked Wheel Protection:
Locked wheel protection compares the wheel speeds of the two
outboard or the two inboard pair of wheels.
If the slower wheel speed decreases to less than 30 percent of
the faster wheel speed, the locked wheel protection releases
brake pressure from the slower wheel. Locked wheel protection
does not operate at a speed less than 25 knots.
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bond007
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:09 pm

In a Beech Sundowner I can tell you it results in a burst tire and an uncommanded (well..) departure of the runway, and if there are any aircraft parked alongside that runway you just departed...well....need I say anymore  Wink


Jimbo
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L-188
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:56 pm

Taildragger, you are going to end up on your back.

And I have seen the results of a lear landing with locked brakes due slush on the departure runway.

Yup, mechanics scrambling to find 4 mounted lear tires at 2 in the morning. Which if you only have one aircraft isn't a number you normally stock at once.

The mainwheels where ground down to about an inch of the rim.
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SlamClick
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:05 pm

Quoting Troubleshooter (Reply 5):
Locked wheel protection is a slightly different story. It compares the speeds of wheel pairs. If the anti skid system senses a certain difference between the wheels it releases brake pressure from the slower wheel.

You are right - I said the wrong one.

Never did find out what caused the problem with the C-404 but a couple of us had it happen.
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stall
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:06 am

Few years ago a saw a Swiss F5 Tiger landing with the brakes on (anti-skid was disconected mistakenly by the pilot) ... well a lot smoke, a big noise and lot of sparks.

The mech team had a long night to fix the plane  Smile
Flying is fun
 
midnights
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:33 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 2):
Most modern airplanes do have wheel brakes on the maingear only. Mostly they are operated by pressing the top of each rudder pedal. This gives differential braking for each side, so they can be used for steering

This is why I have so many tires to change....Using brakes to steer the A/C at taxi speeds will greatly shorten the life of the tires, especialy the nose tires as it pulls the nose around. Job security I guess.....
 
SlamClick
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:53 am

Quoting Midnights (Reply 10):
This is why I have so many tires to change....Using brakes to steer the A/C at taxi speeds will greatly shorten the life of the tires, especialy the nose tires as it pulls the nose around. Job security I guess.....

Sorry partner. I wasn't just out there drumming up work for you. I was addressing a guy who claimed to know nothing about airplanes. You pilots out there - what Midnights said: Differential braking is for when you've run out of everything else.

I've always thought that was not the best idea ever - the Grumman-American Yankee with no nosewheel steering, just castering. Even without a flat tire it didn't look all that great.
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2H4
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:18 am




Quoting SlamClick (Reply 11):
I've always thought that was not the best idea ever - the Grumman-American Yankee with no nosewheel steering, just castering.



I agree....I flew a Cirrus, which also has a free castoring nosewheel, and I felt as if I was doing something wrong the whole time I taxied.




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
caboclo
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:23 am

One cause of locked brakes on small aircraft is moisture frozen on them. At my first freight job, I was taught to hid the brakes HARD after extending the gear for landing, to move the pistons and break the ice.

Re differential braking, on the Metroliner, the nosewheel steering is MEL-able!! Landing with no steering has to be all kinds of fun.  scared 
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ACYWG
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:52 am

Quoting Caboclo (Reply 13):
One cause of locked brakes on small aircraft is moisture frozen on them. At my first freight job, I was taught to hid the brakes HARD after extending the gear for landing, to move the pistons and break the ice.

When I was working at Kenn Borek Air, their answer to the ice frozen brake situation on their King Airs was to give it a REALLY hard landing. Theory being, if you hit it hard enough it'll crack the ice and break it off. They had a number of interesting work arounds on their planes, since many of the planes were operating in environments they were never designed for.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:56 pm

With most modern Commercial Airliners having In built Touchdown protection & Locked wheel protection.This is eliminated.If there was to be a malfunction one would get Decapped tires or badly skid marks on them.
regds
MEL
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N231YE
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:44 pm

It has happened at my university once before...a few blown tires and lots of black smoke.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 11):
I've always thought that was not the best idea ever - the Grumman-American Yankee with no nosewheel steering, just castering. Even without a flat tire it didn't look all that great.



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 12):
I agree....I flew a Cirrus, which also has a free castoring nosewheel, and I felt as if I was doing something wrong the whole time I taxied.

How is that similar to a Cessna's steering, which I absolutely hate?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:52 pm

Quoting N231YE (Reply 16):

Ever Observed a B737 Landing with a Broken torsion link on the NLG & watch as the Speed reduces.
regds
MEL
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N231YE
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:01 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 17):
Ever Observed a B737 Landing with a Broken torsion link on the NLG & watch as the Speed reduces.

I have not, but it sounds interesting (but from the safety point of view-scary).
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:27 pm

Quoting N231YE (Reply 18):
I have not, but it sounds interesting (but from the safety point of view-scary).

As the Aircraft looses momentum,the Nose wheel starts Snaking with a wider area as Steering control thru the Tiller & Rudder pedals is lost.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
2H4
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:48 pm




Quoting N231YE (Reply 16):
How is that similar to a Cessna's steering, which I absolutely hate?

Cessnas...at least the 150/152/172/182/210...don't have free castoring nosewheels. They have bungees that link the pedals to the nose gear. When the rudder pedal (not brake) is moved, the nosewheel pivots accordingly.

On the Cirrus, and other aircraft with castoring nosewheels, the nosewheel doesn't care what rudder inputs are being made....it simply acts like the front wheel of a wheelchair or shopping cart. Application of one of the brakes is required to change direction.

I really can't stand castoring nosewheels. Although some of them allow for smaller-radius turns, using the brakes to turn feels very sloppy to me.


2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
sulman
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:49 am

I found the C150 very difficult to steer when I first started - the nose wobbled all over the place. The main problem for me was that you had to steer with long, exaggurated movements - exactly the opposite of learning to control the aircraft in flight.
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2H4
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:10 am




Quoting Sulman (Reply 21):
The main problem for me was that you had to steer with long, exaggurated movements

It's also important to anticipate and lead the steering inputs, as the bungees do not have an instant effect.


2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
MXSUP
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:19 am

Heard stories of an ExpressJet 145 landing in EWR with the parking brake applied. Did a couple 360's and scared the crap out of the crew. Dont know if its true or not.
 
EMBQA
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:39 am

Quoting TimePilot (Thread starter):
What would happen if you landed with them on?

Can anyone load up the pictures of the MidAtlantic E170 that landed in Houston with the brakes on..?? It blew out all 4 main tires and broke one of the drag braces.......and left a long skid mark.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
N231YE
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:59 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 20):



Quoting Sulman (Reply 21):

As you have stated, it seems that a Cessna's steering is much better than that of the Cirrus. Although I never have flown a Cirrus, I guess I would prefer the Piper steering better over the Cessna and Cirrus; it feels much more responsive.
 
KELPkid
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:13 am

Quoting Midnights (Reply 10):
I've always thought that was not the best idea ever - the Grumman-American Yankee with no nosewheel steering, just castering. Even without a flat tire it didn't look all that great.

Crosswind takeoffs can be real interesting in these types...the rudder doesn't have instant control authority  Sad Differential braking is sometimes required on the takeoff roll to keep the nose pointed the right way. The grocery cart steering is my major gripe with the type-I love just about everything else about the Grummans  Wink
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PurdueAv2003
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:43 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 24):
Can anyone load up the pictures of the MidAtlantic E170 that landed in Houston with the brakes on..?? It blew out all 4 main tires and broke one of the drag braces.......and left a long skid mark.

Not to mention damage to the flaps, wings, and MLG doors from the tire debris and the wheels were ground down darn near to the axle on one side. Unfortunately, I don't have the pics anymore.  Sad
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EMBQA
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:19 am

Quoting PurdueAv2003 (Reply 27):
I don't have the pics anymore

I still have them on my lap top.....
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:21 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 24):
Can anyone load up the pictures of the MidAtlantic E170 that landed in Houston with the brakes on..?? It blew out all 4 main tires and broke one of the drag braces.......and left a long skid mark.

Yup had viewed those pics.The Damage was massive.It had the Brakes scraped through too.
regds
MEL
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NicolasRubio
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:59 pm

Quoting TimePilot (Thread starter):
What would happen if you landed with them on?

This:













Note the braking distance!







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lowrider
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:01 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 20):
I really can't stand castoring nosewheels. Although some of them allow for smaller-radius turns, using the brakes to turn feels very sloppy to me.

You should try a castoring only tailwheel. Taxi is similar to herding cats.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 24):
and left a long skid mark.

And that was just the pilots' shorts. You should have seen the runway.
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Starlionblue
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:30 am

Nice shots NicolasRubio!

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 31):

You should try a castoring only tailwheel. Taxi is similar to herding cats.

Especially in those taildraggers that have no forward visibility while taxiing. Always looks like a drunk drivers weaving back and forth across the taxiway.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
NicolasRubio
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 32):
Nice shots NicolasRubio!

Thanks, but not mine (I forgot to say that!  banghead  )

Cheers,
Nicolas Rubio
Gripped 7D + Sigma 10-20mm + 17-40L + 50mm f/1.8 II + 70-200mm f/4L IS + EF 400mm f/5.6L + 580EX II
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:29 pm

Those were the pics.
BTW why did the Wheels lock in this case.
regds
MEL
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ex52tech
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:10 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 34):
BTW why did the Wheels lock in this case.

My guess would be anti-skid control failure.....unless the pilot set the parking brake in the air, which I'm not sure you can even do in the air.
He should have had a message either way.

Ex.
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Curmudgeon
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:02 am

1. I think the salient feature of anti-skid locked wheel protection is that the wheel speed is compared from one pair to another. If they are all locked, there's no rpm differential to trigger the locked wheel protection feature (as I understand it).

2. Parking brakes have a red light or other warning device, but it can be missed. EICAS equipped aircraft would have some kind of crew alerting message I think. Attempting a take-off with the brakes set is worse, and people have died as a result (One that comes to mind was Kellogg's Falcon 10 at Meigs)

3. Castoring nosewheels are less than delicious. The Volpar Beech 18 nosewheel conversions had castoring nosewheels, but after the taildragger they were child's play.

4.The Ted Smith Aerostar had electric nosewheel steering via a rocker switch. That was just goofy.

The heavier taildraggers had tailwheel locks for take-off...they would break if taxiing was attempted with them locked. DAMHIKT .
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ex52tech
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:36 pm

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 36):
1. I think the salient feature of anti-skid locked wheel protection is that the wheel speed is compared from one pair to another. If they are all locked, there's no rpm differential to trigger the locked wheel protection feature (as I understand it).

So how did the wheels get locked in the first place? The LH MLG wheels were definately locked. Anti-skid systems don't usually work below 10kts, I think they were going a little faster than that to make skid marks that long.
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Curmudgeon
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:16 pm

It looks like they were all locked, but maybe the right ones burned through faster. The right side skid marks end much sooner than the left, but they too are ground down to the wheels.

I don't know how the brakes became locked. The only type of brake that I have seen that will do this easily is an emergency air brake on Convairs. The Convairs only had one hydraulic system, so there was emergency air uplock release, and brakes. They were actuated by twisting large knobs (which were the same color and size, and neither could be easily identified). Alternate gear extension training in Convairs could inadvertently end up with locked brakes (no anti-skid installed).

Normal parking brakes work, as has been described already, by first depressing the toe brakes, then pulling a handle. It is a deliberate series of actions, and I don't know how a fit and rested pilot does this by mistake while airborne. Get enough tired pilots and eventually every mistake possible will be made.
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lowrider
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:07 pm

There is an NTSB report on this from 2005. If the site wasn't down right now I would post a link. Maybe tomorrow.
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HAWK21M
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:47 pm

Quoting Ex52tech (Reply 35):
My guess would be anti-skid control failure.....unless the pilot set the parking brake in the air, which I'm not sure you can even do in the air.

Something Def went wrong.Anyone work on the type.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
VC-10
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:36 pm

Nice pictures. I like the way the downlock pin has been fitted to a fractured downlock!
 
ex52tech
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:22 am

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 41):
Nice pictures. I like the way the downlock pin has been fitted to a fractured downlock!

I saw that too.
Either it was out of habbit on the part of the towing crew, or they thought it would trick the gear into not folding up while they were towing it.

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 38):
and I don't know how a fit and rested pilot does this by mistake while airborne.

In the early 90s there was an A320, belonging to a US carrier, that had all of it's flight control computers fail on a flight, the crew declared an emergency and landed at the nearest airport.....Well upon investigation it was determined that they shutdown two to three seconds after each other in a certian sequence, and came back on in the exact reverse sequence as they shut down, which happens to be in the exact order that the switches are arranged on the pilots overhead pannel. That is how things like that happen......loose nut behind the wheel, button pusher in the cockpit, however you want to label it.

I can't imagine that the crew would actually set the parking beakes then attempt to land. My guess is that the LH mains locked upon application of the brakes and the RH mains failed due to the heavy braking that was needed to keep the airplane on the runway.

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 38):
Normal parking brakes work, as has been described already, by first depressing the toe brakes, then pulling a handle. It is a deliberate series of actions,

Thank you running me through that proceedure, but I learned how to do that some 20+ years ago when I did my first high power run on a B-52.
"Saddest thing I ever witnessed....an airplane being scrapped"
 
mrocktor
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:43 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 34):
BTW why did the Wheels lock in this case.

Parking brake set in flight.
 
vikkyvik
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:19 am

Quoting Ex52tech (Reply 42):
In the early 90s there was an A320, belonging to a US carrier, that had all of it's flight control computers fail on a flight, the crew declared an emergency and landed at the nearest airport.....Well upon investigation it was determined that they shutdown two to three seconds after each other in a certian sequence, and came back on in the exact reverse sequence as they shut down, which happens to be in the exact order that the switches are arranged on the pilots overhead pannel. That is how things like that happen......loose nut behind the wheel, button pusher in the cockpit, however you want to label it.

Could you clarify what you mean? I don't get the analogy.

Thanks!

~Vik
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ex52tech
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:43 am

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 44):
Could you clarify what you mean?

Ok...for whatever reason the pilot decided to turn off the flight control computers while in flight. The assumption was that he was bored and thought....I wonder what would happen if I did this........and shut them all off.
They went off line one at a time in the exact sequence that the switches are in the cockpit overhead panel from left to right, and came back on in the exact reverse sequence from right to left. When he shut them all down he got various warnings and messages that he could not erase. This forced the crew to declare an emergency and land at the nearest.
They were able to ascertain what happened from either the flight recorder, or the MCDU, or both. That is what we were told happened, by Mx control.
I gave that analogy because I wanted to make the point that boredom and complasency sometimes result in things happening that shouldn't
"Saddest thing I ever witnessed....an airplane being scrapped"
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:39 pm

Quoting Mrocktor (Reply 43):
Parking brake set in flight.

How can you do that.Is there no Air-Grd lock.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Curmudgeon
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:16 pm

Quoting Ex52tech (Reply 42):
Thank you running me through that proceedure, but I learned how to do that some 20+ years ago when I did my first high power run on a B-52.

I don't think I aimed that explanation at you personally, 52Tech. I mentioned it in case some readers were not familiar, and to illustrate that parking brakes pretty much come in one flavor.

Quoting Ex52tech (Reply 45):
That is what we were told happened, by Mx control.

And now its my turn to dial up the sarcasm: MX control in any airline is not the final authority in what happened in flight. Pilots can make some butt-head mistakes, but so can every other job classification on the property. You might really think that two pilots would experiment with shutting down computers inflight, and you might think that the lead hand in MX would have made a great detective. I remain sceptical, but no hard feelings...
Jets are for kids
 
ex52tech
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 47):
You might really think that two pilots would experiment with shutting down computers inflight, and you might think that the lead hand in MX would have made a great detective.

Well think what you want.......but it happened. This situation was discussed in A320 training also, so it wasn't a secret.
"Saddest thing I ever witnessed....an airplane being scrapped"
 
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litz
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RE: What Happens If You Land W/brakes On?

Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 36):
Attempting a take-off with the brakes set is worse, and people have died as a result (One that comes to mind was Kellogg's Falcon 10 at Meigs)

I was on a DL MD88 a couple years back that almost tested this theory - we started our takeoff roll (after standing for a couple of minutes at the end of the runway), and had just BARELY gotten moving when the engines shutdown and we LURCHED to a stop ...

Pilot said he'd gotten a parking brake warning, so he cut power, set and released the parking brake, and we'd try again.

Because the plane wasn't at a full stop when he set the brake, we lurched (hard!) to a stop ... hard enough the plane almost "bunny hopped" ...

Takeoff was uneventual the 2nd time ...

- litz

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