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ZSOFN
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737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:52 pm

Hi guys

Sorry if this has been discussed before (I have done a search  Smile )

I've noticed that the MFDs in the 737NG cockpit have 2 different formats that generally seem to be the same across a certain airline's fleet, for instance WN's 73Gs on the left and U2's on the right:


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I've heard that these modes are interchangeable but require a few hours with an engineer. Is there a general preference? Why is the option available?
 
mandala499
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:35 pm

1 emulates the 737 classic format, the other is the proper NG format, following the 777 style.

The options are available to cut down conversion times and provide better pilot interchangeability between the 733/4/5 and the 736/7/8/9

I think you can go from one format to the other at a flick of a switch... but hey, I never been on an NG before  Smile

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avioniker
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:38 pm

A little more than the flick of a switch but not all that incredibly difficult if you're acquiring a plane and want it configured.
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IFixPlanes
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:14 am

It is only a Software change
Config 1(Compacted Mode)


Config 2
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HAWK21M
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:16 am

Nice Sketches.How did you get the Thumbnail size.
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B727230
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:35 am

It is indeed a pin option in the software like Avioniker said above. In a simulator, the change is made by pressing a button when the cockpit is powered off.

Certain European airlines, like Maersk, Luxair and Hamburg Airlines are using the EADI/EHSI (classic) layout.
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lorm
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:56 am

Quoting B727230 (Reply 5):
It is indeed a pin option in the software like Avioniker said above. In a simulator, the change is made by pressing a button when the cockpit is powered off.

Boeing promo material (brochures, pamphlets) and like IfixPlanes said, states it is changed by a software loaded disk. So there might be two ways to change the format. In any case..

There are two pages available on the lower EICAS screen that can be viewed when an aircraft has the PFD/ND (777 style) format. Each page is activated by pressing the ENG or SYS button located by the autobrakes switch. In aircraft using the EFIS/MAP (classic EADI/EHSI) format the buttons are marked INOP and the lower EICAS screen is blank.

In setup 2 IfixPlanes' picture shows the PFD/ND setup. The screen on the right is the lower EICAS ENG page. Picture below is the SYS page which shows flight control surface positions and hydraulic fluid quantity and pressure:



Boeing also has a few optionals for operators on the PFD style screen - VOR in localizer display, show groundspeed (under the airspeed tape), Angle of Attack (to the right of FD and below G/S), and a Rising Runway display (green rectangles just below the horizon on 5 degrees).



Picture displayed is a PFD setup in a single channel autopilot approach. A dual coupled autoland would have displayed FLARE under G/S.IKOA is the current ILS selected 174 degrees localizer heading/DME at 1.9 (note both radios are selected at IKOA, with one it would be crossed out). At the top in green, RETARD, VOR/LOC, and G/S (glideslope) are displaying the current mode in the autopilot FMA - flight mode annunciator. RETARD is in the THRUST mode selection, VOR/LOC is in the ROLL mode selection, and G/S is in the PITCH mode selection. FD is showing the flight director is active. 26 is the radio altimeter altitude in feet. RADIO 200 showing minimums/decision height using radio altimeter. Tape on the left is airspeed, 131 autothrottle speed selected, REF speed is just under 130kts (seems like 131 is +5 for wind correction). Tape on the right showing MSL altitude with 29.98 as the barometric pressure. Far right tape is the vertical speed tape/ needle. Bottom, HSI compass style display with 130 autopilot heading in magenta. Meters for altitude can also be displayed pressing MTRS button located on the display control panel.

Some airlines using EFIS/MAP (classic/EADI/EHSI):
Air Berlin, Air Europa, Continental, Southwest, Varig
PFD/ND (777 style): American, Delta, Lauda, Qantas, VirginBlue

-LorM

[Edited 2005-09-15 02:23:24]
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troubleshooter
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:38 am

LorM,

well done explanation!  checkmark   bigthumbsup 
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B727230
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:56 am

Quoting LorM (Reply 6):
Boeing promo material (brochures, pamphlets) and like IfixPlanes said, states it is changed by a software loaded disk. So there might be two ways to change the format.

If I may correct myself, it is changed by loading a disk in the real aircraft. The pin option I mentioned is something we can set in the simulator's configuration file. The contents of that disk is already in the simulator host, so the pin is pointing to the respective data load. I am quite sure though that the loading is much faster in the simulator than in the real acft. Not sure if the disk is loaded in the E&E compartment or if they use the Data Loader diskdrive on the flight deck but to compare, loading an NDB with 500 records takes ages... and changing display configurations is for maintenance crew only, as far as I know.

Can add to the list of PFD/ND operators:
SAS, SAS Braathens, Sterling, Britannia, Ryanair to name a few

[Edited 2005-09-15 02:58:02]
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IFixPlanes
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:37 pm

Hapag Lloyd also uses Config 2
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ZSOFN
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:33 pm

Thanks for all the info guys.

One last thing - is there any "commercial" benefit to this option? Does it mean any less time needed for training? For instance if a pilot has a 733/734/735 type rating he wouldn't need much conversion training for the 737NG with the old-style setup? (Wouldn't have thought so, just want to understand the reasoning - seems unique)
 
troubleshooter
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:18 am

I don´t know if less training for conversion is required, but pilots told me it´s easier to move from a Classic to a NG with this option in a mixed fleet operation. I think this is the actual benefit.
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Starlionblue
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:43 am

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 10):
One last thing - is there any "commercial" benefit to this option? Does it mean any less time needed for training?

Definitely a lot of commercial benefit depending on your fleet makeup.

There are other cases of this. SAS MD-80s have (had?) the parts of the PFD display disabled in order to make it easier for DC-9/MD-80 pilots.
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RedDragon
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:53 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 12):
SAS MD-80s have (had?) the parts of the PFD display disabled in order to make it easier for DC-9/MD-80 pilots.

MD-80s or MD-90s? (In the first instance... or maybe the second...  Smile)

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Starlionblue
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:31 am

Quoting RedDragon (Reply 13):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 12):
SAS MD-80s have (had?) the parts of the PFD display disabled in order to make it easier for DC-9/MD-80 pilots.

MD-80s or MD-90s? (In the first instance... or maybe the second... Smile)

Rich

Pretty sure it was MD-80s.
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lorm
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:48 am

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 10):

One last thing - is there any "commercial" benefit to this option? Does it mean any less time needed for training? For instance if a pilot has a 733/734/735 type rating he wouldn't need much conversion training for the 737NG with the old-style setup? (Wouldn't have thought so, just want to understand the reasoning - seems unique)



Hawk, use www.imageshack.us when hosting images. Thats what we the for thumbnail. 1 meg file limit per file so no need to worry about image space. It's free.

-LorM
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HAWK21M
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:13 pm

Quoting LorM (Reply 15):
Hawk, use www.imageshack.us when hosting images. Thats what we the for thumbnail. 1 meg file limit per file so no need to worry about image space. It's free.

Thanks.
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B727230
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:12 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 12):
There are other cases of this. SAS MD-80s have (had?) the parts of the PFD display disabled in order to make it easier for DC-9/MD-80 pilots.

Which parts would that be? I'm working with the MD-80 flight deck daily but haven't noticed anything extraordinary. Might be because I've just done it for a couple of years though.
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ZSOFN
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:55 pm

Quoting LorM (Reply 15):

What's the difference between 733/4/5 EFIS and non-EFIS flight decks? I've done a photo search and I'm not sure what to look out for. I've seen some slightly different layouts but not in relation to the EFIS display.
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:21 pm

Ok found one  Smile

Am I right in thinking the photo on the left is non-EFIS while the one on the right is EFIS?


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B727230
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:46 am

That would be correct, ZSOFN.  Smile
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Jetlagged
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:34 am

Yes, but the 733/4/5 EFIS also had different format displays, either PFD/ND or EADI/EHSI, selected by program pins. So it's not simply a question of EFIS and non-EFIS.

I guess it all depended on what style of instrumentation an airline's first 737s had and whether they wanted to keep commonality or not. Whatever the case, all 737s have a common type rating.

Note the left hand picture has traditional (round dial) engine displays and the right hand picture has the later electronic engine indicators. Airlines could, and did, specify EFIS flight instruments (PFD or traditional style) combined with the round dial engine displays.
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ZSOFN
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:56 am

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 21):
Note the left hand picture has traditional (round dial) engine displays and the right hand picture has the later electronic engine indicators

I noticed that variation too. It seems the 733/4/5 has the most varied flight deck of all modern(ish) airliners!

Wonder why U2 didn't have the EFIS style setup on their 737NGs for commonality's sake?
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:19 am

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 22):
It seems the 733/4/5 has the most varied flight deck of all modern(ish) airliners!

Take a trawl through the many photos of 747-100/200/300 flight decks on A.Net. The variations are staggering.
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ZSOFN
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RE: 737NG Flight Deck Display Formats

Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:40 am

Cheers Jetlagged, will do.

Seems an interesting contrast to Airbus' philosophy on flight deck commonality.

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