mirrodie
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Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:47 am

Ok, OK, background.

I usually fly with AA. While they have yet to truly LOSE my luggage, this trip was the third time it was delayed.

first time was a simply trip from FLL to JFK, the luggage didnt make the flight and showed up at my doorman's step sometime overnight. (this was when I lived in the city) This was in Jab/feb 1999.

Then delayed again from LIH-LAX-JFK. Got the knock at my door at 325 AM.
May 2004

Then last week, JFK-LAX simply didnt make it on flight AA 001.(we were my wife, her grandmother and me. We ALL checked in at the same time in JFK that morning and all 3 bags went on that conveyor belt together, like peas in a pod.)

We arrived in LAX at noon and were planning to visit various families. So we really did not have an address to forward the luggage to.
But due to the luggage issue, we were forced to stay at one address, captive until the luggage arrived. i was awoken from the knock at 12:07AM.

So tell me, I am a scientist trying to understand how

A) the odds were against me in having luggage delay issues 3 times and

B) how is it that of the 3 bags, one can just "not make the flight?: It blowns my mind! I just can't see how that works!

Please, I am hoping to hear the other side's view. Those that work in the industry.

I could really care less about delayed luggage, even if it was 3 times. But to think of the inconvenience to my hosts, thats what was most upsetting.


mirrodie
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kaddyuk
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:15 am

if you have ever seen how the baggage "throwers" drive those baggage carts you can understand when one or two bags fall off and sit on an apron for a couple of hours till its picked up and re-scanned into the system...
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
ACYWG
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:47 am

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 1):
if you have ever seen how the baggage "throwers" drive those baggage carts you can understand when one or two bags fall off and sit on an apron for a couple of hours till its picked up and re-scanned into the system...

The guys that Alaska farmed its ground crew out to in SEA would be a good example of this...
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:56 am

I had my bags beat me once going from ATL-SAT.. The bags got on a flight earlier than mine.... They were sitting there with a DL agent who checked my claim ticket and gave me my bag.. I was out of the airport before anyone else from my flight had collected their bags.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
NASOCEANA
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:21 pm

FedEx your luggage to your destination a day early, lots of customers seem to try this now a days!
B777 greatest Airliner ever built!
 
KevinL1011
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:04 pm

Reasons for cargo/baggage not transversing time and space as expected are many. Common snags include:

1.Availablility of handlers, at that airline, at that gate , at that time. Typically airlines try to schedule arrivals and departures in groups or "pushes" as referred to by towmotor ops. Typically there is sufficient crew to get this done on a "scheduled" basis. Then an MD11 heavy rolls in late during "scheduled" push and all hell breaks loose. Many airlines hire out to aircraft service companies to do this at peak periods or at infrequent gates. Outside services are informationally(?) disadvantaged and parcels destined for Ontario Canada wind up here @ ONT Ca. I remember an NWA Captain got so impatient waiting for a push, he used reverse thrust to blow the craft out of the gate. Tweaked the Jetway somewhat. I don't know why, but it seems everything happens in waves and cannot be done all at once.

2 .Multi-stop flights create a loadmasters nightmare. Larger cargo items need to be strategically placed and often obstruct access to PAX items. Items destined for the final gate are placed nose and tail leaving space to on and off load one stop items. Your bag may get obstructed by a larger item and be overlooked. Maybe a contract handler chucked your bag into the only percievable location, at the nose along with the terminus items. If you ever had to crawl around in the belly of an MD 80 dash whatever, you know what I mean. It's just not as simple as taking an item off one ship and throwing it into another.

3. Believe it or not...your Samsonite is not the only thing under the floor. Airlines diffuse as much cost as possible shipping freight. Often these cargo items are given priority and SOMETIMES more PAX than expected (flight delay,cancellation) with more than the average 2.8 items per. show up at a gate. There simply isn't enough space in the hold.

4. Since 911, counter to craft transit time has doubled and nobody wants to be responsible for monitoring parcel destination. Security screening pesonnel do not care if your luggage gets to ONT or ORD or SWA or AA. They only screen it and push it along. Somehow it usually makes it OK , but conveyer belts can create a gap. The physical handling aspect has definately increased.

Forget about equipment failure, weather, fatique, personnel problems, luggage coming apart at the seams.....piece of cake.

To answer your question, expect more delays and mis routed bags. As someone already has pointed out.....Fed Ex.
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Whiskeyflyer
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:46 pm

we have off loaded baggage for (1)AOG spares for another aircraft, (2) density altitude problems however we shall allways remember the newbie captain (who has since moved onto a major) who insisted on weighing all the pax and baggage, INDIVIDUALLY, for a charter flight because he had miscalculate the engine thrust index (resulting in leaving behind a few pax and quiet a few bags). That was a fun day in the office for our charter people.
 
bri2k1
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Thu Oct 06, 2005 7:35 pm

I'd be happy to FedEx my bags if the airlines would subtract the associated cost from my ticket!

I don't want this to turn into a trip report thread about everyone's lost bag incident, so I'll only share one: Once, DEN to YWG, traveling in a group of 4, on a half-full CRJ, half of our bags got there, and half (including mine) did not. We all checked in 3 hours early and re-confirmed once at the gate. There's at least one daily non-stop DEN to YWG, and several more connecting flights -- but it took THREE DAYS before my bags showed up. What a nightmare.

Thanks for sharing some of the reasons, Kevinl1011. I know Denver's baggage system is no prize (I once saw it on a TV program about the top 10 engineering disasters), and increased screening requirements don't help the situation. I've argued on this forum other times that a plane arriving early is not necessarily a good thing, mainly because of gate and ground handler crew availability. It seems the only people who disagree with me are the flight crew, who are not subject to the same carry-on limits. Here's another plug for my argument that on-time is much better than early (or of course, late)
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mirrodie
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:16 am

Kein, thanks for the multiple scenarios.

So I guess a 1 of 3, 2 of 3 and 3 of 3 marking on the tags wouldn't help either.


Bri2ki has a great idea. Maybe the airlines should consider the option to a ticket with baggage and a ticket without, with pricing correspondent to that.

The pax would save money and use it toward Fedex, maybe the airline would save the hassle, the complaints, the cost of delivering luggage, etc.

And since Fedex rocks, maybe they could have a travel rate for luggage.
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cancidas
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:09 am

on my ramp we have the problem of agents who simply don't care about the job they have. aside from that, many bag issues are caused by the pax themselves. people who check in at 0730 for a 0750 departure should not expect thier bags to arrive with them. all bags go through TSA screening, and frequently they are either shortstaffed or backlogged from overwhelming pax loads.

now, mirrodie i'm not blaming you for what happenned. all i'm trying to do is show you that there are two sides to every story and that blaming the carrier might be easy but may not be the real cause of the problem. naturally, if you check in your bags for a flight then they ought to be on that flight. most carriers have positive bag match rules to they need to be on the same plane as the pax. if only everything worked the way it should...
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:28 pm

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 3):
I had my bags beat me once going from ATL-SAT.. The bags got on a flight earlier than mine.... They were sitting there with a DL agent who checked my claim ticket and gave me my bag.. I was out of the airport before anyone else from my flight had collected their bags.

Isn't the Bag supposed to be on the Aircraft the Pax travels.
No Pax,No Bag,from Security POV.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:29 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
Isn't the Bag supposed to be on the Aircraft the Pax travels.
No Pax,No Bag,from Security POV.

I think that is how it works.. But all the things that factor into your bags not being on your airplane also play into your bag being on the airplane ahead of you i guess. It was probably simple human error or they knew the flight I was on was going to be crammed to the gills. It is something I have always held in DLs favor in my heart.. Rather than my bag being late, it was early. There were a few other people's bags there too.

I guess if I had a bomb in my luggage I would not have been able to detonate it on my flight, because it was already on the ground at my destination.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
Mr AirNZ
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:41 pm

Funny thing happened on a training course earlier in the year. 15 CSA's all sitting in a room. We were asked who here had lost luggage. 12 people put their hand up. Made us laugh at least.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:14 pm

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 11):
I guess if I had a bomb in my luggage I would not have been able to detonate it on my flight, because it was already on the ground at my destination.

I dont think it works that way.consider a Diversion or Delay.Out here its clear No Pax,No Bags.I feel that was an error.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
KLM-MD11
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:28 pm

was just talking about this with one of my co-workers who has worked as a check-in clerk.

Actually we were talking about rude and obnoxious pax... he had once tagged their luggage to another destination... on purpose!

he also told about colleagues that would tag the luggage correctly, but then would rip off the tag (also the one with name and address) once the pax left the desk. Never to be found again. the luggage that is...
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mirrodie
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:36 am

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 11):
I guess if I had a bomb in my luggage I would not have been able to detonate it on my flight, because it was already on the ground at my destination.

Now there's a brilliant statement. Let us know when the FBI or Homeland Security stops at your door. Yikes Big grin

Actually Cancidas, I'm coming to terms with the fact that if I take two fairly sized to slightly oversized bags ONBOARD, at least they might chekc them at the gate. Normally, at that point, doesnt it just go down that chute attached to the jetway. Seems likea surefire way to direct the bag to the a/c's belly.

Then theres the BS to deal with at destination.

I wish the gurus at Fedex could hear our pleas!
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CaptOveur
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:37 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 13):
.I feel that was an error.

I don't doubt that it was.. but it was in my favor so I look at it as good customer service and an airline going above and beyond the call.

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 15):
Now there's a brilliant statement. Let us know when the FBI or Homeland Security stops at your door.

OOO im shaking.. Maybe if I ran a donut shop
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
bri2k1
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:39 pm

FedEx can't match the speed of delivery of traveling on the same plane as the passenger, but I could certainly pack things a day early. In fact, most of the time, I need to bring specialized tools with me when I travel for business, and instead of trying to explain what they are to TSA or customs, I ship them a day early. FedEx makes mistakes too, though, and you'll only get $100 from them if you don't pay extra for insurance (and it could take a long, long time to get it, too).

Skychecking works well, but on many flights, it's not an option. If you can't stow something on a larger plane with normal-sized overheads, the only option is usually to check it through to your final destination, meaning it gets shoved in with everything else. You're already at the gate, so there's a good chance it will make it on (and off) that plane. But if you have a connection, it's anyone's guess.

I find the more I fly, the less often my bag gets there. I have over 25,000 miles on UA alone this year, and of the 50 or so segments I've flown on various carriers, they've all had the opportunity to delay my bags. I just prepare for it now, and carry essentials on when I do check. I doubt anyone but the person who's responsible for the delay will ever know the real reason. Of course, as has been pointed out, if you arrive at the last possible second, YOU become that person. I would fully expect not to have my bag if I wasn't checked in more than 45 minutes in advance. Of course, there have been exceptions to that rule, too...
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HAWK21M
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:11 pm

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 16):
I don't doubt that it was.. but it was in my favor so I look at it as good customer service and an airline going above and beyond the call.

It was in your Favour but the Airline could be in big trouble if you were a Terrorist. Smile
Good thing is that you did not have to wait for your bags long.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
bri2k1
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:25 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
Isn't the Bag supposed to be on the Aircraft the Pax travels.
No Pax,No Bag,from Security POV.



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 18):
the Airline could be in big trouble if you were a Terrorist

I don't think so, MEL. Positive bag match works just as well as long as the passenger travels on ANY flight, since they don't know which flight their bag got onto, and can only assume it's the one for which it was checked. I believe the airlines are trying to avoid someone checking a dangerous package onto the flight and then not boarding the flight because of the contents of the package. The premise, sadly, doesn't work, because these psychos are clearly willing to blow themselves up.

Also, it only seems to apply to the first leg of a trip (to one destination). Once a bag has made one successful journey, it's deemed safe. In the US anyway, this is only slightly added security, since the checked bags are X-rayed, too.
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prebennorholm
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:34 am

European statistics:

Air Malta is best with 3 bags not making it per 1,000 bags.
KLM worst with 22 bags per 1,000 not making it.
SAS pretty average with 11 bags per 1,000 not making it.

Following Wilbur Wright's historic flight in 1903 his baggage could not be located.
After over a hundred years the airline industry still hasn't recovered from that incident.

We live in a wonderful world.
In less than two hours you can be in London.
And in just eight hours you can be in New York City.
And in 20 hours your baggage can be in Tokyo....
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Lost Baggage.. Just Tell Me How, Please?!

Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:47 pm

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 20):
Following Wilbur Wright's historic flight in 1903 his baggage could not be located.
After over a hundred years the airline industry still hasn't recovered from that incident

 bigthumbsup 
Interesting.....I wonder who has the Bag.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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