julesmusician
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Visual Checks On Aircraft In Quick Turnarounds

Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:14 am

Correct me if I am wrong, but with most short haul flights the crew do not actually get out of the aircraft or do any sort of walk around to check the aircraft? In my pilot training days I was told that the walk around was probably the most important aspect of my first checks in that it would reveal the "*****ing obvious" if there was a problem. How come airlines are happy that the walk around checks are no longer done or are they expecting ground staff to alert the pilots to any problems?
African Civil Aviation Commission president "You don't want to fly out as a passenger and come back as cargo."
 
cancidas
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RE: Visual Checks On Aircraft In Quick Turnarounds

Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:17 am

yes they do, even on the 15-minute turns on out B1900s. we ramp rats do one when the plane comes into the gate and the outbound crew does a preflight, even if it's the same crew that brought it in. that's just the way it's done.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
SuperD
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RE: Visual Checks On Aircraft In Quick Turnarounds

Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:04 am

No matter how quick the turnaround, one pilot always does a walkaround at my carrier. At some airlines ground personnel are authorized to do walkarounds, so that may be why you don't always see a pilot get out of the aircraft.
 
midnights
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RE: Visual Checks On Aircraft In Quick Turnarounds

Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:12 pm

Our flight crews always perform a walkaround even on the quickest turns here at AA and most of the time the ground crew crewchief will do a quick walkaround to ensure all the doors/panels are closed and secured. We mechanics used to do a predeparture inspection, but that was before all the layoffs. Now we just go out when the flight crews call us.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Visual Checks On Aircraft In Quick Turnarounds

Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:30 pm

Out here Mx does the checks Including the Transit check Inspection.The Pilots do carry out their Walk-Around Inspection also.
Normally its the F/O.  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
SlamClick
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RE: Visual Checks On Aircraft In Quick Turnarounds

Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:05 pm

If I shut it down I walk around. One or the other of us pilots will do a walkaround at every stop. Or a splasharound, or a skatearound, depending on the weather. There are times when I'd love to stay warm and dry inside the airplane but I do want a look at it. I don't think much of a pilot who doesn't feel that way.

Things found on our walkarounds: Big piece of wheel rim missing. Bird embedded in the taxi light. Bird nest in cooling baffles on a radial engine. Bird nest in rudder balance on a jet. More than a quart of water out of one fuel tank on a helicopter. Box of leftover catering in a DC-9 intake. Wrench rusted to a bolt head in a wheel well. Pine needles and small branches in rudder and elevator linkage. Scraped, but not compressed tail bumper.

Things I wish I'd found: Extensive stone damage to a tail rotor.

Rule of thumb:
Find it before you fly - someone else did it.
Find it after you fly - you did it.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Visual Checks On Aircraft In Quick Turnarounds

Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:21 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 5):
Things found on our walkarounds: Big piece of wheel rim missing. Bird embedded in the taxi light. Bird nest in cooling baffles on a radial engine. Bird nest in rudder balance on a jet. More than a quart of water out of one fuel tank on a helicopter. Box of leftover catering in a DC-9 intake. Wrench rusted to a bolt head in a wheel well. Pine needles and small branches in rudder and elevator linkage. Scraped, but not compressed tail bumper

What was Mx doing.....Sleeping.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
SuperD
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RE: Visual Checks On Aircraft In Quick Turnarounds

Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:44 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 5):
Box of leftover catering in a DC-9 intake.

Wow! I haven't seen or even heard of that one before. That must have been an interesting conversation with ramp personnel.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Visual Checks On Aircraft In Quick Turnarounds

Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:48 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
What was Mx doing.....Sleeping.

Ahh, you assume airline, on-line operations. My career has taken me many places that didn't have such luxuries as ground personnel.

Quoting SuperD (Reply 7):
Wow! I haven't seen or even heard of that one before. That must have been an interesting conversation with ramp personnel.

Most places that cater MDs or DCs through the aft galley doors carry a "dog dish" engine cover on the truck to prevent such things. However, Murphy wasn't paranoid, just realistic.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
amtrosie
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RE: Visual Checks On Aircraft In Quick Turnarounds

Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:56 am

Did a walk-around on a DC-9 (crew didn't) and found the I/B spoiler board hanging on by a thread (literally- a bolt thread!) This had to have been for a flight or two. No crew walkaround on a quick turn.
 
Stoicescu
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RE: Visual Checks On Aircraft In Quick Turnarounds

Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:05 am

I talked with an ex F/O for US Airways (regionals) and he told me that he did walk arounds every time. He also told me that captains didn't do that (even if they ware not flying that leg) but there are a few exceptions the "cool captains".
 
SuperD
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RE: Visual Checks On Aircraft In Quick Turnarounds

Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:40 pm

Quoting Stoicescu (Reply 10):
I talked with an ex F/O for US Airways (regionals) and he told me that he did walk arounds every time.

It's company procedure at my carrier, as well. It's not that the captains are being obnoxious, it's just the way we do it. The captain has to get the paperwork, fill out the logbook, etc....so they're usually not just sitting around while we walkaround. If it's the last flight and I have to make a quick connection to get home, or if the captain needs to go down to the ramp he/she will often tell me that they'll get the walkaround.
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Visual Checks On Aircraft In Quick Turnarounds

Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:49 pm

Over here things are shared very well between the two pilots. PNF always does the walkaround. Always. It does not help a carrier to have the FOs treated badly and do things which the captain doesn't want to do.

On the walkaround issue, we are required to do one before every flight, however there are cases when you really have to weigh up the risks....lightning, heavy rain, typhoons....is it riskier departing without a walkaround or better risking your life on the ramp...after all, with us. the engineers MUST do a walkaround prior to every departure, and their walkaround is going to be far far more thorough than ours every will be. If there is something to be noticed 99.99%, they will have noticed it first.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Visual Checks On Aircraft In Quick Turnarounds

Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:07 pm

At one company the senior captains all hated to do the paperwork, so they had an informal agreement: The f/o did the paperwork and the captain did the walkaround - rain or shine. When I was an f/o there I would do my own from time to time, just to commune with my airplane. A mechanic told me that no captain ever caught that the nosewheel viewing port was dirty but f/o's did all the time.

One captain always pulled the right aileron down as he passed it, so that the left one would be up when he got to it. Every once in a while we would give him a minute to get away and back by the tail somewhere then move the yoke full right. This would position the left aileron down instead of up as he expected it. Then we'd sit there and watch the captain walk all the way back over to the right wing to check that airleron. He never said a word about it but always looked puzzled when it happened.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Visual Checks On Aircraft In Quick Turnarounds

Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:39 pm

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 13):
One captain always pulled the right aileron down as he passed it, so that the left one would be up when he got to it. Every once in a while we would give him a minute to get away and back by the tail somewhere then move the yoke full right. This would position the left aileron down instead of up as he expected it. Then we'd sit there and watch the captain walk all the way back over to the right wing to check that airleron. He never said a word about it but always looked puzzled when it happened.

That probably got his Flight controls Theory all mixed up  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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