julesmusician
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Flapless Landings On Large Aircraft - When To Do?

Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:25 pm

Is there any time when a large commercial aircraft might come in and land without flaps? (other than a failure!) - are there any specific circumstances which require it or has any pilot done it for a specific reason?
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PhilSquares
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RE: Flapless Landings On Large Aircraft - When To Do?

Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:41 pm

Quoting Julesmusician (Thread starter):
Is there any time when a large commercial aircraft might come in and land without flaps? (other than a failure!)

There really is no operational reason to do a "no flap" landing. There is a substantial increase in Vref which translates to a tremendous increase in the runway required.
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LimaFoxTango
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RE: Flapless Landings On Large Aircraft - When To Do?

Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:03 pm

I remember hearing sometime ago that a flapless landing is considered an emergency procedure ie mechanical failure or loss of hyraulic pressure etc. Unless for training purposes, an aircraft would not normally land without flaps.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Flapless Landings On Large Aircraft - When To Do?

Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:42 pm

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 2):
a flapless landing is considered an emergency procedure

It very well might be. In many cases the landing speed is near, or slightly above the tire speed limit. They are a very critical maneuver.
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Mr.BA
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RE: Flapless Landings On Large Aircraft - When To Do?

Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:19 pm

Have there been situations that flaps fail on one wing but operate normally on another? What is the procedure in this case? I suppose it's too dangerous to fly 'unevenly'?
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HAWK21M
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RE: Flapless Landings On Large Aircraft - When To Do?

Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:37 pm

Quoting Mr.BA (Reply 4):
Have there been situations that flaps fail on one wing but operate normally on another

Normally Asymettric protection will stop the Mvmt of the Flaps beyond a specific Difference.
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Qantas744er
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RE: Flapless Landings On Large Aircraft - When To Do?

Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:44 am

I think that when you haver an engine failure lets say on a 777 and you loose one engine, that you then do a flapless landing. correct me if wrong
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SlamClick
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RE: Flapless Landings On Large Aircraft - When To Do?

Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:50 am

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 6):
I think that when you haver an engine failure lets say on a 777 and you loose one engine, that you then do a flapless landing. correct me if wrong

Don't know anything about the triple-sev but I can tell you for absolute certain that you do not make a no-flap landing with an engine out on the 757/767 or A-330.

I cannot impress this upon you enough.

A no-flap landing is a very serious event. It is much more serious than an engine failure or fire.

You will have the crash trucks standing by. You will very probably blow all the maingear tires. You are about 70/30 going to have to evacuate the passenges down a slide, unless you flew around long enough for them to position a stair truck with the crash trucks.

In a big jet airliner you are never going to do a no-flap landing unless it is absolutely unavoidable.

edit: Will usually make a big difference if you can get the leading edge devices deployed.

[Edited 2005-10-30 19:51:38]
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rendezvous
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RE: Flapless Landings On Large Aircraft - When To Do?

Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:51 am

With an engine failure on a twin I believe it is a reduced flap setting that is used (to allow better climb for missed approach etc).
 
SlamClick
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RE: Flapless Landings On Large Aircraft - When To Do?

Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:11 am

Quoting Rendezvous (Reply 8):
reduced flap setting

Reduced yes. Massive difference between that and NO flaps. May easily be a fifty knot difference in touchdown speed.

Typical for an engine out might be landing at the highest takeoff flap setting. Like maybe flaps 15 for a 737.
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