keta
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Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:02 am

Looking at this picture:


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Photo © Andrew Hunt - AirTeamImages



I noticed that there is no trim wheel like that seen in other Airbus' planes. So how is the trim controlled? Is it done with those big mouses?

Also, are the keyboard and the screens part of the equipment of the A380 or are they for testing only? Maybe they can play FlightSim while they're flying  Silly
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NAV20
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:08 am

Very good question, Keta. Blowed if I know the answer.  Smile
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:27 am

Quoting Keta (Thread starter):

Also, are the keyboard and the screens part of the equipment of the A380 or are they for testing only? Maybe they can play FlightSim while they're flying

They are standard flight deck equippment
 
flyAUA
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:30 am

Quoting Keta (Thread starter):
I noticed that there is no trim wheel like that seen in other Airbus' planes. So how is the trim controlled?

It's all automatic trim as far as I'm aware. The pilots don't "control" the trim anymore.
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uniuniunium
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:39 am

IIRC, the older Busses had trim wheels next to the thrust levers as backup if the autotrim failed. I think there may be an alternate trim switch (similar to what you see on newer B767s and B777s) located right above the rudder trim switch dead center on the console at the bottom of the picture.
 
ElGreco
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:47 am

Quoting Keta (Thread starter):
Also, are the keyboard and the screens part of the equipment of the A380 or are they for testing only?

The A380 try to become the first plane really without paper in the cokpit, so that's why the put directly keyboard for both pilot and copilot, they will be retractable.

You also can see on your picture the TACS system where cameras with optical cables give very nice view of the planes from the rear top and below the plane just after the front landing gear. Already available on 345 and 346, it's a good help for pilots on the ground but it's also possible to give image on IFE system (this is already happen on some airlines by the camera with optical link here give an incredible quality).

For the wheel, I'm not sure, but may be we need to see an other one picture.
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agill
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:51 am

Quoting Keta (Thread starter):

Also, are the keyboard and the screens part of the equipment of the A380 or are they for testing only? Maybe they can play FlightSim while they're flying Silly

I thought those were for being able to post here while flying. I mean most of us read here on the job, so why shouldn't the pilots  Smile
 
zarniwoop
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:56 am

Check this thread from tech/ops forum (regarding the pitch trim wheel):
A380 Pitch Trim Wheel (where Is It?) (by Zarniwoop Jul 18 2005 in Tech Ops)
 
dogfighter2111
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:04 am

If i'[m not mistakem, i'd say they are using Microsoft Windows for the computer at both sides.

Thanks
Mike
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:40 am

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 8):
If i'[m not mistakem, i'd say they are using Microsoft Windows for the computer at both sides.

While there is no big reason why not, it's probably an embedded OS based on something else.

AFAIK you can still trim with the thumb buttons on the sticks if you have to revert down from Normal Law, but my memories are fuzzy on this one.
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A342
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:02 am

Yes. Mechanic trim wheels are not used anymore since the A340-500/-600/-300E came into production. IIRC, they´re also deleted on new A330s. As Starlionblue said, there are electronic trim buttons.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
musapapaya
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:09 am

One question to you guys - do you know who is the supplier of the nice LCD screens? They look really big and nice. Thanks.

Regards.
Lufthansa Group of Airlines
 
EMBQA
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:26 am

Quoting Keta (Thread starter):
I noticed that there is no trim wheel like that seen in other Airbus' planes. So how is the trim controlled?

As was said above, most modern aircraft built in the last 20 years do not have a trim wheel. Trim, along with roll and pitch are adjusted and controlled with toggle switchs on the center console. Some even have a second thumb switch on the yoke.
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calpilot
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:29 am

If you look at the bottom of the picture (lower center pedestal) you can see the knob for the rudder trim.

Just above that is a rocker switch, with a split. This in other aircraft is a Alt. Trim Switch, as a Boeing person I would suspect that this is the same in the updated Airbus.
 
B744F
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:50 am

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 8):
If i'[m not mistakem, i'd say they are using Microsoft Windows for the computer at both sides.

i sure hope that keyboard has ctrl + alt + del capabilities...
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:04 pm

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 8):
If i'[m not mistakem, i'd say they are using Microsoft Windows for the computer at both sides.

BTW...What is the Operating System in use.
regds
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keta
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:33 pm

Thanks for your answers guys!

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 8):
If i'[m not mistakem, i'd say they are using Microsoft Windows for the computer at both sides.

Yeah, it looks like. But I definitely hope they don't! I wouldn't want to have to restart the flight while on the air!  Silly
Where there's a will, there's a way
 
beowulf
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:19 pm

Quoting Keta (Reply 16):

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 8):
If i'[m not mistakem, i'd say they are using Microsoft Windows for the computer at both sides.

Yeah, it looks like. But I definitely hope they don't! I wouldn't want to have to restart the flight while on the air!

While I am certainly not defending Microsoft, you have to look very carefully at what's causing an operating system to crash. Is it really the OS that crashes or is it rather an application running, which makes the OS go blue. Often it's also hardware/drivers causing trouble.*) So, for critical systems only certified applications and hardware are allowed. Developing your own operating system is costly; no one does it unless they have to. Remember, we are talking of this screen with a keyboard here and not about the computers that control flight dynamics.


*) An example: I am running OpenBSD, a sturdy "UNIX" flavor, on my laptop when it crashed. But in fact the XServer, an application, crashed and, but the operating system still worked because I could log in via ssh and reboot the box.

[Edited 2005-11-14 14:23:28]
 
buckfifty
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:36 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 10):
Yes. Mechanic trim wheels are not used anymore since the A340-500/-600/-300E came into production. IIRC, they´re also deleted on new A330s. As Starlionblue said, there are electronic trim buttons.

That is not true at all. Trim wheels are still used on all those aircraft. The 346's I fly still has the trim wheel, albeit the trim setting after the engine start has now become automatic.

The 380 is the first Airbus that will not have a trim wheel, instead relying on electrical motors which will activate the control surfaces during an emergency. However, I'm not conversant as to how this system works in it's entirety, someone else can perhaps explain this issue better.

The trim wheels on the other Airbii do not have much of a function, except to set the trim setting after the engine start, trim the aircraft when it is in direct law (with an accompanying ECAM message telling you to do so), and to control the stab trim in case of a full electrical and hydraulic failure. In the Airbus event timeline, this is called a mechanical backup, as the aircraft can only be controlled by the trim wheel and rudders only. In all other circumstances, Airbuses are all fully trimmed automatically, unlike Boeings, where pitch trim is either full manual or semi-auto.
 
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CCA
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:23 am

Quoting BuckFifty (Reply 18):
to control the stab trim in case of a full electrical and hydraulic failure. In the Airbus event timeline, this is called a mechanical backup, as the aircraft can only be controlled by the trim wheel and rudders only.

The Airbus control surfaces are ALL:
-Electrically Controlled
-Hydraulically ACTIVATED

The stabilizer (and rudder on the A330/340-300) can also be CONTROLLED mechanically not ACTIVATED mechanically.

No Hydraulics = NO MOVEMENT

The 737 is an example of an AC with mechanical activated controls as backup in the event of a total hydraulic failure.
http://www.b737.org.uk/flightcontrols.htm

[Edited 2005-11-14 18:34:28]
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buckfifty
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:38 am

You're right, CCA, my bad. Type too much.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:39 am

Quoting Beowulf (Reply 17):
While I am certainly not defending Microsoft, you have to look very carefully at what's causing an operating system to crash. Is it really the OS that crashes or is it rather an application running, which makes the OS go blue. Often it's also hardware/drivers causing trouble

It's a Windows feature to crash along with crashing application- or driver software.

It's quite natural. Windows was produced to make it as difficult as possible to run non-Microsoft software. OS to application interface is kept as complicated as possible.

All other operating systems were produced to make it as easy as possible to run foreign applications. OS to application interface is kept as simple as possible.
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XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Where Is The Trim Wheel On A380?

Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:11 am

The trim wheel is in the same place as the CRJ.... it doesn't have one.

I don't even think the airbus has "trim" im the common sense of the word- It automatically trims b/c there is no positive control feedback through the stick. We have a normal trim clicker on the yoke- but no wheel... just a digital and tape display of the trim position.
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