frequentflyer
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:22 am

MEL

Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:03 am

Hi there:

What is the piece of equipment that you would least want inop, and at the same time does not preclude your aircraft from flying?

In other words, the stuff that you like when piloting, but that is not a requirement for a safe operation of the aircraft?

Cheers,

P
Take off and live
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: MEL

Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:20 am

Without a doubt - the APU.

Without that you have to use ground power at the gate and, unless you are in LAS or PHX you will not have any airflow in the cabin. Then you will have to use a huffer to start one engine at the gate, and do a crossbleed start for the other engine.

I'd rather lose an engine than an APU.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
midnights
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:24 pm

RE: MEL

Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:48 am

I have placarded just about everything that's covered by the MEL's for our fleet types and the one item that all flight crews hate to have on placard is an air conditioning pack. This requires them to file a new flight plan cause they gotta fly at a much lower alt., get more gas and a host of other stuff. I've taken away APU's, autothrottles, autopiolts, F/C lavs, fuel pumps, captian seat adjustments and everything else that can break on the aircraft, but the aircondition pack is always the one item that gets the crews to roll thier eyes and mumble a curse or two.
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

RE: MEL

Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:48 am

I agree that an inop APU is a real pain the ass BUT in the MD-11 an inop fuel qty. gauge on the synoptic display causes all sorts of headaches especially if it's a long leg to fly. I've copied a PORTION of the MEL requirements for a SD gauge inop here and deleted about 80% just to show the more important items.
MD-11 Minimum Equipment List
TOC
Synoptic Display
A 3 2 (O) (M) One may be inoperative provided:
a) Fuel Quantity Synoptic indications for
the remaining two tanks are operative,
b) All engine Fuel Flow Indications are
operative,
c) All engine Fuel Used Indications are
operative,
d) Affected tank is fueled to a known
quantity,
e) Fuel Quantity in affected tank is
checked by Fuel Level Sticks after each
refueling,
f) The flight does not require fuel dumping
for the enroute engine out driftdown
procedures,
g) All Fuel Pumps and (Main) Fill Valve in
the affected tank are operative,
h) Fuel System Controller is operated in
the Manual Mode,
ik) When aircraft’s intended track takes it
farther than 120 minutes from a suitable
airport and trip reserve fuel is less than
23,000 lbs., add a maximum of 5,300
lbs. of fuel or until reserve fuel equals
23,000 lbs.,
l) Number 2 Main Tank Fuel Transfer Float
Switch (40K) is operative,
m) Tip Tank Gravity Transfer System for
affected tank is operative,
n) Tip Tank Full Float Switch for affected
tank is operative,

q) If MTOGW is 630,500 lbs and Aux Tank
quantity exceeds 9,000 lbs, comply with
ground fuel schedule of 100 lbs. Tail
Tank fuel per 750 lbs. Aux Tank Fuel.
1. Tail Fuel Management is inoperative.
2. Associated Overhead Panel Indication may be inoperative.
NOTE:If the associated Overhead Display is rendered blank by this MEL, it is NOT necessary to
document relief for the Overhead Display.
3. “FUEL QTY FAULT” Alert may display.
4. If Tank 2 Fuel Quantity is inoperative, the "TNK 2 FUEL QTY LO" Alert is inhibited.
5. Gross Weight, Aircraft CG, and Total Fuel On Board will not display.
6. FMS Fuel Dump to Gross Weight function will not be available.
7. In the event of a fuel dump, fuel quantity as indicated on the FMS will be in error by the amount of fuel
dumped. Recalculate Usable Fuel On Board (UFOB) and enter into FMS Weight INIT Page for accurate
FMS calculations.
8. Fuel Dump Low Level Cutoff is still available.
9. The FMS may limit aircraft speed to approximately 320 kts.
NOTE:DO NOT use this speed for dispatch and flight planning calculations.
OPERATIONS (O)
1
2. DO NOT conduct operations above 78° N Latitude.
3. Operate FSC in MANUAL.
CAUTION:On Preflight, verify all FSF calculations using the FSF Verification Module of the
Performance Computer.
8. Periodically check fuel quantity in affected tank by subtracting fuel used and quantities in other tanks
from initial fuel quantity on board.
9. Fuel burn is increased by 2.7%.
 
erj-145mech
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 4:21 am

RE: MEL

Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:56 am

Quoting Frequentflyer (Thread starter):
What is the piece of equipment that you would least want inop, and at the same time does not preclude your aircraft from flying?

The coffee maker!!
 
ba299
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 9:18 pm

RE: MEL

Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:00 am

without doubt:

1-A/T
2-APU
3-packs
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: MEL

Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:06 am

From a dispatcher's perspective, these 737 items:

1/ Inop anti-skid
2/ Inop A/C pack
3/ Inop Fuel boost pump
4/ Inop RVSM-related stuff
5/ Inop L/E items (MEL 27-4, both panels)
6/ Inop HUD
7/ Inop APU
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7797
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: MEL

Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:40 am

Auto-Pilot...

God did our pilots cry if it was MEL'd.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
HikesWithEyes
Posts: 623
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:54 am

RE: MEL

Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:43 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 6):
From a dispatcher's perspective, these 737 items:

1/ Inop anti-skid
2/ Inop A/C pack
3/ Inop Fuel boost pump
4/ Inop RVSM-related stuff
5/ Inop L/E items (MEL 27-4, both panels)
6/ Inop HUD
7/ Inop APU

Those are all important ones, but don't forget those pesky no-icing MELs.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: MEL

Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:29 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 7):
Auto-Pilot...

God did our pilots cry if it was MEL'd.

True story...

Years ago, one of our founding 737 captains turned 60 and retired. He spent a couple of years in the local ops, and then became a dispatcher. The guy ("H. T.") had thousands of hours of time, and flew PBYs in the Pacific during WWII. HT was gruff, and his language could be salty and profane when provoked.

Early one morning one of our other captains appeared at the briefing counter to pick up his release for his first two legs of the day, DAL-SAT-DAL, and he noticed that his autopilot (737-200) was inop per MEL 22-1. The captain then proceeded to gripe about it, and apparently took it a little too far for HT's liking, whereupon HT loudly told the griping captain (in front of still other captains) that "I flew 8,000 hours all over the F***** Pacific Ocean getting shot at without a G** D***** autopilot and you can't even make it to F****** San Antonio and back!"

The office went silent, the griping captain quietly signed his dispatch release, left the copy and the pen on the counter, and slowly turned and went out the door, never to gripe again in front of HT...

HT stayed a few more years, and then retired, only to pass away about a year later (cancer). We remember this story (and many others) with great fondness; he was quite a character....
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: MEL

Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:46 pm

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 1):

I'd rather lose an engine than an APU.

Are you serious  Smile

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 7):
Auto-Pilot...

God did our pilots cry if it was MEL'd.

I think the Auto pilot too.I've heard Pilots crib over an U/s A/P as it affected them more than most INOP Items.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Whiskeyflyer
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon May 13, 2002 3:07 pm

RE: MEL

Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:29 pm

our pilots it is the Auto Pilot they complain about most and I thought you paid pilots to fly.........

as they say about the stages of a pilot's profession path

At first...they pay to fly
Next... they fly for free
Next.. you pay them to fly
Finally... they don't want to fly
 
VC-10
Posts: 3546
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: MEL

Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:18 am

I heard one story where a DC10 arrived at a station and the crew wrote up that the A/P's were inop and they had had to 'pole' it most of the way across the Atlantic. Maintenance went up to check it out & found the lateral control wheel was out of its detent. Put it back in its correct posn and the A/p worked just fine!
 
nonfirm
Posts: 426
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:04 pm

RE: MEL

Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:06 pm

The auto pilot is the one we get the most gripes about.
 
saintsman
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:34 am

RE: MEL

Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:56 pm

I'm not sure that this one's in the MEL but I once had a captain who refused to take the aircraft because there was no lemon for his tea!

Mind you that was in the airforce and some of the crews were so far up their own arses. We had an aircraft full of passengers who had to wait whilst the caterers found a lemon for him.
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: MEL

Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:08 pm

Quoting Saintsman (Reply 14):
I'm not sure that this one's in the MEL but I once had a captain who refused to take the aircraft because there was no lemon for his tea!

We had something similiar but for Hot Coffee as he was served Tea by the Grd ops staff by Mistake  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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