saintsman
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How Long To Change An Engine?

Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:14 pm

As a rough guide, how long does it take to change an engine on something like an A330 and how many men would you need?

Thanks,

Saintsman
 
kaddyuk
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:57 pm

It depends on alot of factors...

1) The number of men in your team

2) The status of the new engine. If your new ongoing engine is missing all the components that attach to the gearbox then its going to take alot longer because you'll have to swap over the items from the old engine to the new one.

3) General status of the engine, some engines are just easier to change than others.

If you have everything in place when you need it then you can normally completely change an engine inside 10hrs. It can take an awful lot longer and 18hrs is not unheard of
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DL_Mech
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:43 pm

Kaddy is pretty much spot on. We have changed 757 engines in under four hours, but MD-90's can take a couple of days.
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SlamClick
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:30 pm

I changed an engine into an ingot in about three seconds once.
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futureuapilot
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:58 pm

Maintenance here at ATW can completely take out the engine, do all the checks it needs, and have it back on and working in less than 7 hours. 3 guys on a team I believe.

-Sam
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LMP737
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:58 pm

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 1):
1) The number of men in your team

Also the experience level of the guys on your team and how often they work together. You get a bunch of guys who work together on a regular basis it makes for a much shorter engine change. They get so good at it they can anticipate what the others are going to do.
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EI747SYDNEY
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:59 pm

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 3):
I changed an engine into an ingot in about three seconds once.

Excuse my ignorance but whats an ingot??

Rob  wave 
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Okie
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:51 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 3):
I changed an engine into an ingot in about three seconds once.

That is a good one SlamClick

Quoting EI747SYDNEY (Reply 6):
Excuse my ignorance but whats an ingot??

Ingot = A melted hunk of metal

Okie
 
jarheadk5
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:05 am

IMO, the biggest factors are:

1. The experience level of the crew, and how long they've worked together.
2. Whether the new engine has all the accessories already installed.

With an experienced crew, we used to change engines, rig, and be ready for test-flight in about 4 hours on the CH-53E.
BUT, throw a couple new guys on the job, or come up missing tools, and it can turn into an all-nighter... ask me how I know.
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saintsman
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:10 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 3):
I changed an engine into an ingot in about three seconds once.

That's a great help  Wink

Thanks for the replies guys.
 
NKP S2
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:34 am

Other factors, in addition to the completeness of the new engine, # of men, cohesiveness of the crew etc.

1) Issues discovered during the change, mostly relating to security/integrity of the pylon/firewall area, wiring, bushings etc

2) Any mods, or "convenience" items: Mounts, precoolers, offtakes etc done while access is available.

3) Completeness of the engine change kit: They can be well travelled, and there's noithing worse than having the whole shebang held up because of a damaged dynamometer or missing clevis pin or shackle.

4) Weather: Yes, it will take longer in bitter cold, rain, freezing rain, or on a 100 degree humid hardstand.

5) How much "boostrap" equipment is required. On some aircraft/engine combos, these can be quite elaborate and cumbersome. Larger A/C often require you to be like some acrobatic Tarzan type to install/remove it, as well as acess the mount points. Also, refer to point #3 again......

Yes, some A/C engines can be R&R'd remarkably fast, but really, due the points above and in other posts, I always say when asked: "It depends on whether the airplane is smiling of frowning that day".
 
GDB
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:40 am

In BA Concorde, we were lucky in having plenty of very experienced people who worked well together.
A good bunch, with a positive attitude, could get an Olympus off, stick the new one on, within a shift (7.5 hours).
This counted having the aircraft ready to go for a run on the pipes, better yet, going and doing it before shift end.
 
fr8mech
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:21 am

Quoting FutureUApilot (Reply 4):
Maintenance here at ATW can completely take out the engine, do all the checks it needs, and have it back on and working in less than 7 hours. 3 guys on a team I believe.

I'm interested in what kind of aircraft that is.

Way back when I worked at Pan Am, we could do a JT9D engine change in between 5 & 6 hours, assuming no firewall issues and assuming a "quick engine change (QEC)" engine.

The longest I've seen any engine change take is 23 days. We found several cracks during the firewall/pylon inspection.
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EMBQA
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:13 am

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 12):
I'm interested in what kind of aircraft that is.

I think he's talking about a CRJ with CFM34's. That's about right. A lot depends on the talent of the crew. I've seen a Saab 340 CT-7 completely done and ready for revenue departure in about 6 hours....and that included a PGB split and parts change over..... and I've seen the same job done in three days.
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NKP S2
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:56 am

Some A/C have unusually easy engine R&Rs. I know the ex-PSA guys I work with said you could R&R an engine on a BAE-146 in 2 hours or so and described the process in detail. Even considering that the engines they received were "ready to hang" ( and I can't stress enough to laymen that this makes a HUGE difference ) that is amazingly quick; Which was just as well ( or unfortunate ) as they needed to be changed quite often according to them.

[Edited 2005-11-18 00:57:00]
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Fri Nov 18, 2005 2:42 pm

If I remember right,a QECA [Quick Engine Change Assy] change on a B732 used to be 30 minutes Theoritically.
regds
MEL
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miamiair
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:36 am

Four hours for a C-130, with a QEC ready. Less time if the QEC has a prop on it.
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kaddyuk
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:49 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15):
If I remember right,a QECA [Quick Engine Change Assy] change on a B732 used to be 30 minutes Theoritically.

30 Mins? Thats insane... are you sure???
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fr8mech
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 6:39 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15):
If I remember right,a QECA [Quick Engine Change Assy] change on a B732 used to be 30 minutes Theoritically.
regds

I'm thinking that you're remembering wrong. I've never changed a B737 engine, but I've changed plenty of B727 engines. I suspect that the number 2 on a B727 hangs about the same as a B737, minus the ring cowl bolts. The fastest I've heard of a B727, #2 engine is 4 hours. Call it 45 minutes (1 person) for the ring bolts and you get about 3.25 hours.

But again, that's just supposition on my part.

[Edited 2005-11-18 22:40:11]

[Edited 2005-11-18 22:40:43]
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lightsaber
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:21 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 3):
I changed an engine into an ingot in about three seconds once.

 rotfl  CO dropped an engine at PBI once (onto a nearby suburb, no one hurt). Does that count?  duck  What was funny, is that they had a crew out to the engine with it on its way to the airport in less than ten minutes, before the press even arrived! The local paper had a hissyfit as they didn't get a single picture. (Simplified the investigation too, no days of taking photos in front of someone's house.)

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15):
If I remember right,a QECA [Quick Engine Change Assy] change on a B732 used to be 30 minutes Theoritically.
regds
MEL



Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 17):
30 Mins? Thats insane... are you sure???

I've found this discussion very interesting. I've come from the prototype world where some of these engines were *designed* with 15 minute changeout times. Obviously a disconnect with reality. Add to that 15 minutes a 15 minute crew brief, 30 minutes to collect everything, 45 minutes for inspection/QA/paperwork, and the real world minimum changeouts were predicted to be 2 hours.

Lightsaber
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midnights
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:34 am

When I worked at SFO we could change a 767 motor dune, spun and run in about 5 or 6 hrs. I've seen a A300 engine changed in an 8 hr shift and I was involved in an MD-80 eng change with a full conversion in 4 hrs, 6 guys on a very cold night in DCA so we were motivated to get done.
 
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NZ1
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:15 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 3):
I changed an engine into an ingot in about three seconds once.

Welcome to my RU list. That has made my day SlamClick. Thankyou.  Smile

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futureuapilot
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:45 pm

Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 12):

I'm interested in what kind of aircraft that is.



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 13):
I think he's talking about a CRJ with CFM34's. That's about right.

Nope, it's a BAe-146. I should say they also do alot of other tests with the aircraft, not only engines. They can get one plane in and out in one night so it's ready to go again in the morning. Good old Air Wisconsin!

-Sam
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Venus6971
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:40 pm

On a 707/E-3a can have a out board motor up in about 4 hours if everything goes right and got a crew that knows what it is doing, inboard motor 6 hours always run into problems with the utility hydraulic system. The op checks and trim under 8 hours if evrything goes right.
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scarebus03
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 4:20 pm

Usually from my experience the bigger the engine the quicker the change. Fr8mech remember the fuel/oil cooler on the -9D?........ouch!!


SB03
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:08 pm

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 18):
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15):
If I remember right,a QECA [Quick Engine Change Assy] change on a B732 used to be 30 minutes Theoritically.
regds

I'm thinking that you're remembering wrong. I've never changed a B737 engine,



Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 17):
30 Mins? Thats insane... are you sure???



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 19):
Add to that 15 minutes a 15 minute crew brief, 30 minutes to collect everything, 45 minutes for inspection/QA/paperwork, and the real world minimum changeouts were predicted to be 2 hours.

Thats why the Word "Theoritically".Boeing & P&W specified that 30 minutes would be adequate after they carried out trial run.Although as slamclick mentioned it covers only the Dismantling & hookup by crews prepared for the job.In practical I've never seen one being done in less than 2 hrs.
regds
MEL
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smcmac32msn
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:19 am

I've seen NW have a DC-9 come into MSN at about 1800 local one day with a bum engine and they were able to send it back out with passengers at 0600 and a new engine. I've also seen it take 4 days to replace a Citation VII engine, but they had to wait for a bunch of parts. Also saw an EMB-145 take about 15 days for an engine change after a MX goof-up on the ramp early one morning. (Note to mechanics: NEVER try to start an engine with the plugs out.)
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EMBQA
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:39 am

Quoting FutureUApilot (Reply 22):
They can get one plane in and out in one night so it's ready to go again in the morning. Good old Air Wisconsin!

Not really much to brag about. If you can't get an engine changed on an overnight with a BAe146 or a Avro 85 it's time to look for a new line of work. I was part of an engine change crew once and we had one up and down in 3 hours. A bleed air line, 3 bolts, a fuel line, and 2 oil lines and a couple of quick disconnect harnesses and your done

[Edited 2005-11-20 01:55:25]
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fr8mech
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:05 pm

Quoting Scarebus03 (Reply 24):
Fr8mech remember the fuel/oil cooler on the -9D?........ouch!!

Do you mean replacing it? I'd rather change the cooler than the PRBC and/or fuel/air converter (on the non-TWA engines). Hell, I'd rather change an engine then the PRBC.
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citationjet
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RE: How Long To Change An Engine?

Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:57 pm

I have seen Braniff change an engine on a 747-100 while parked at the departure gate in DFW once, it took five hours. All of us passengers sat and watched the engine being changed while we sat in the departure gate.
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