NWA1978
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After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:28 am

I have always been curious to know, when an airline does a D-check, is the aircraft brought back into like new condition? I dont see alot of images of the d-checks so I dont really know. Is it something like this that allows NWA to fly the DC-9/DC-10 so long? I know it is very expensive and time consuming so I was just curious what all was done. From the few images I have found, the interiors were stripped. Thanks for any help you can provide!
 
Tod
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After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:03 am

Quoting NWA1978 (Thread starter):
when an airline does a D-check, is the aircraft brought back into like new condition?

Almost

For all the nitty gritty move over to tech-ops.

Tod
 
joness0154
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After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:35 am

Its pretty much a like new condition.

On a D-check, done once about 5-6 years, is where everything removable is removed from the plane, including interior, control surfaces, fuel tanks, instrument panel, engines, everything you can think. Pretty much down to the skin of the A/C. Worn items are replaced, and time limited items too, etc and then the A/C is put back together

Takes anywhere from 30-45 days or longer.
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
EMBQA
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After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:44 am

D-check from what I see are a thing of the past with newer aircraft. The C-check has become the driving inspection now a days. The C-check has been broken down to more intense levels such as C, C1, C2..Also, many aircraft are now driven by cycles such as a 12K, 30K inspections.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:51 am

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 2):
On a D-check, done once about 5-6 years

Which Type are you qouting here.Isn't 5-6 yrs too frequent.

Out here as EMBQA mentioned.Check C inspections cover part of Check D,thus reducing the Quantity of Work when the Check D arrives.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
nonfirm
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:18 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 3):
D-check from what I see are a thing of the past with newer aircraft. The C-check has become the driving inspection now a days. The C-check has been broken down to more intense levels such as C, C1, C2..Also, many aircraft are now driven by cycles such as a 12K, 30K inspections

are you talking more about a phase maint program.we have different type of c checks c-1 , 2, 3 ext maybe with a cpc program type check.but we still go through the k check phase for the md's and the d phase for the 737.
 
PhilSquares
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:58 pm

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 2):
On a D-check, done once about 5-6 years,

How about every 10 years or so. For the 787 it's 15 years.
Fly fast, live slow
 
joness0154
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:41 pm

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 6):

Alright, well that makes sense. I assume that newer designs are built to last longer before D checks.

The sheet my instructor handed out in class today stated D checks normally done every 5-6 years or so, I guess it could be a little outdated?

Or maybe they replaced the old D check with a C check, and extended the life of the D check...?
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
Dalmd88
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:17 pm

At DL our MD88 fleets get D check at 6 years. I think the 737 classics were the same.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:03 pm

Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 8):
At DL our MD88 fleets get D check at 6 years. I think the 737 classics were the same.

What about hrs & Calender period.I would think the hrs would catch up faster,depending on its usage.
B737 its 16,000hrs.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Tobi3334
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:59 pm

Last year I have been on BA's 744 G-BNLJ which was produced around 1990 and I was wondering about the condition of some parts.

Of course ... the cabin was clean, but while I was hanging around in the rear lavatory area I noticed how worn and scruffy the ceiling and the rubber isolation around the main door was.

Certainly this has nothing to do with "safety" but acutally I thought that also these parts will be replaced on D-Checks.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:19 pm

Quoting Tobi3334 (Reply 10):
Certainly this has nothing to do with "safety" but acutally I thought that also these parts will be replaced on D-Checks

Those could be done in a much Earlier check.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Tod
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:36 am

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 2):
30-45 days or longer.

Sometimes alot longer.

Availibility of replacement parts can drag things way out.
It was rather exceptional, but I saw a 744 sit for over six months waiting for D check parts last year.

Tod
 
320tech
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:42 am

Speaking only of the A320, we do phased C checks. Every six months or so, the airplane comes in and we do one third of an inspection. The normal C check interval for an A320 is eighteen months. In most airlines, where C's are done as complete, five or so day checks, the first one is a 1C or C1 (depending on the airline, same thing), second is 2C or C2, etc. A C4 (also C8, C12, C16, etc) check is a "mini-D" - it has more structural inspections. A C check can be thought of as mostly a mechanical check. You're looking at the operation of components, wear, etc, and not really at the frames, stringers, ribs, etc.

The interval for a D check is seven years for the first one, then five years after that (though these check intervals may have been extended recently, not sure).

There are also timed inspections - five year items, ten year items - and by hours or cycles. Generally these are also structural checks.

As much as we'd like to think so, an airplane just out of a D check is not really like new. Many wear items - control bearings, for example - will get replaced, and structural damage will be repaired. But in most cases, you still have the same old aluminium under the paint.
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:28 pm

Quoting 320tech (Reply 13):
As much as we'd like to think so, an airplane just out of a D check is not really like new. Many wear items - control bearings, for example - will get replaced, and structural damage will be repaired. But in most cases, you still have the same old aluminium under the paint.

Is Patch work common on an A320,or is there a different repair method.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
320tech
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:39 am

I haven't seen any big patches, like on the 737 upper fuselage. I've only seen patches where someone beat the airplane (baggage handlers, jetways, etc).
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:53 am

Quoting 320tech (Reply 15):
I haven't seen any big patches, like on the 737 upper fuselage. I've only seen patches where someone beat the airplane (baggage handlers, jetways, etc).

Any Pic of a Patch repair Job on an A320.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
320tech
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:41 am

I don't have any. Seems to me any good close up of a pax or cargo door is likely to show something. I looked through the airliners.net database, and on Google Images, but couldn't find any. They are done pretty much the same as on a 737, though.
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:23 pm

Quoting 320tech (Reply 17):
They are done pretty much the same as on a 737, though.

I don't know if its coincidence,But out here I've strugled to find a Big patch on an A320,but found many of B737s.Even the Paint finish of the A320 looks more smoother than a B737.Is the Material of the Skin different.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
320tech
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:32 am

.Is the Material of the Skin different.

Not that different, I'm sure. Probably just the A320 is somewhat newer than the 737, so fewer opportunities to be beaten. I've seen lots of patches, some of them pretty ugly. Just never thought to take a photo of one.
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:23 pm

Quoting 320tech (Reply 19):
I've seen lots of patches, some of them pretty ugly. Just never thought to take a photo of one

In case you notice one.Post it.
Out here the B737NGs & A320s are quite popular,But The Repair work on the A320 seems much smoother from the Outside.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:59 pm

It is not uncommon for aircraft coming out of D-checks have some "bugs"
that take a few weeks of revenue service before they are identified
and repaired.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:43 pm

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 21):
It is not uncommon for aircraft coming out of D-checks have some "bugs"
that take a few weeks of revenue service before they are identified
and repaired.

A test flight Post Check D will help judge.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:10 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 22):
A test flight Post Check D will help judge.
regds
MEL

I agree, but my experience has been that there are always some
little problems that keep surfacing for a few weeks, if not longer.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:48 pm

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 23):
I agree, but my experience has been that there are always some
little problems that keep surfacing for a few weeks, if not longer.

Thats true.Considering the Amount of work done.It does take time to Settle down.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:13 am

D check sounds very costly. Anyone know the cost?
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
Tod
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:11 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 25):
D check sounds very costly. Anyone know the cost?

I don't have the numbers here at home, but I do know that the can vrie greatly depending on what you find when you rip the plane apart and how desparate you are to get the plane back into service.

Tod
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:14 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 25):
D check sounds very costly. Anyone know the cost

As the Dismantling continues during the check & Structures are Inspected as required.Problems creep up for which at times replacement is required,This adds to the Time of the check.If the Hangar is hired,added days will cost more.Its very Difficult to Pin point the exact cost but Mgmt budget a fixed amount with tolerrances based on their Study.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Dalmd88
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:21 pm

I've seen MD88 costs of about 1M to about 1.2M. We rarely ran out of that range. If the program for the aircraft is well run there will not be many big suprises to run the cost up.
 
A/c train
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RE: After A D-Check, Does The Aircraft Return 'Like New'?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:36 am

Most repairs ive been involved with on the 320 airframe have been 2024-T3 material, most rivets used need to be cooked before use though ! 757's ive done skin repairs on use brilles rivets which dont require cooking.
320 SRM has standard repair schemes like any other aircraft, external repairs using patches and filler plates between stringers etc and flush repairs using doublers and inserts.
regards a/c

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