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HAWK21M
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Extracting AMM Chapters.

Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:59 pm

I've posted this here as People out here would be more Familiar with AMMs.
In case I want to only Extract the Troubleshooting/Fault Isolation section ie -101 of every chapter of an AMM using Acrobat reader 7.0.How do I do it.Snapshot uses one Page at a time & incase of Copy/paste,the entire chapter gets copied.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
erj-145mech
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:33 am

One problem with that is "How do you know that the reference is current?" What you print today, maybe obsolete tomorrrow. We have mechanics busted all the time for having obsolete references on the tool boxes or job areas.
 
miamiair
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:52 am

Quoting Erj-145mech (Reply 1):
One problem with that is "How do you know that the reference is current?" What you print today, maybe obsolete tomorrrow. We have mechanics busted all the time for having obsolete references on the tool boxes or job areas.

Unless you use "FOR REFERENCE ONLY." And even that may land you in hot water, depending on the inspector or auditor. I have an old Pan Am 707 SRM that has some excellent repairs that Boeing did not have in their 707 SRM. Even though it is not approved data, it is approvable.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:40 pm

Quoting Erj-145mech (Reply 1):
One problem with that is "How do you know that the reference is current?" What you print today, maybe obsolete tomorrrow. We have mechanics busted all the time for having obsolete references on the tool boxes or job areas

Thats because I'm using the latest revision issued by the Manufacturer.The Idea is to make a Troubleshooting Manual for my reading.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
charliecossie
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:05 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 3):
Thats because I'm using the latest revision issued by the Manufacturer.The Idea is to make a Troubleshooting Manual for my reading.

That would be illegal in any JAA or FAA country (probably any country). Unless you're going to print it all every day, of course.
Then, once you've read it all you come across an obscure defect that happens once in a blue moon. What do you do? Rely on your memory or go and read it all again, as you are required to do by law.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:10 pm

Quoting Charliecossie (Reply 4):
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 3):
Thats because I'm using the latest revision issued by the Manufacturer.The Idea is to make a Troubleshooting Manual for my reading.

That would be illegal in any JAA or FAA country (probably any country). Unless you're going to print it all every day, of course.
Then, once you've read it all you come across an obscure defect that happens once in a blue moon. What do you do? Rely on your memory or go and read it all again, as you are required to do by law.

Somehow I knew Someone would post about the Legal aspect. Smile
This I had planned for my personal reading.During a Snag rectification I would be referring the AMM as required

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
charliecossie
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:28 pm

Tell that to the CAA Surveyor when he visits. You know, the one that was born yesterday.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:32 pm

Quoting Charliecossie (Reply 6):

I get what you are saying.
But the question was How do I extract a particular chapter from a PDF file.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Buzz
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:53 pm

Hi Hawk21M, Buzz here. I can't be much help with the Adobe acrobat problem, but reading the Service Tips, and getting familiar with some of the troubleshooting is a good exercise. Then when you have a last minute problem you don't flail around as much... at least you know where to start looking, and related faults that show up.
I'd say print up the pages, read 'em and get familiar with the aircraft systems and who feed what (data bus, electrical power, fuel feed, etc.) then let your kids use the paper for crayon coloring.
Maybe i'm not as fretful about the over-zealous FAA inspector - that kind of person doesn't last very long working nights.

g'nite
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:04 am

Quoting Buzz (Reply 8):
I'd say print up the pages, read 'em and get familiar with the aircraft systems and who feed what (data bus, electrical power, fuel feed, etc.) then let your kids use the paper for crayon coloring

Thats the idea.But was thinking of compiling all -101s on a single CD-Rom.The problem is when I use copy paste,the entire Chapter gets copied.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
miamiair
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:13 am

If you have the full-blown version of Acrobat, not the READER, you can go into Documents, extract the pages you need, save them as another file name, using a dash number at the end. Put them in a folder that you have created. Once you have extracted all the sections you need, then you start with the first section, then using the Document drop-down, add the sections until you are done, then save as another file name for the complete document.

That being mentioned, you are violating some of the foundations of the HF process. Specifically, you will use, familiarize yourself with the MOST current data. Utilizing obsolete material just makes for possible events (in a theoretical sense anyways), and this is exactly what HF training is trying to remove.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
erj-145mech
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:46 am

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 2):
Unless you use "FOR REFERENCE ONLY." And even that may land you in hot water, depending on the inspector or auditor. I have an old Pan Am 707 SRM that has some excellent repairs that Boeing did not have in their 707 SRM. Even though it is not approved data, it is approvable.

But you see, I am an inspector, and it is against our general maintenance manual. Unless you have an engineer thats able to approve not approved data thats in the not approved SRM, you're out of luck. I don't know of an engineer that will approve something that the manufacturer won't approve. Thats a fast way to lose the DER, as well as product liability issues. The reason that proceedures are in effect now are a result of liablility resolutions. Unfortunitely, maintenance today is more CYA than fixing planes safely.

An old SRM is neat to have as a historical document, but its a danger to count on for safe operation. Think of it as this, if it were a good ideal, it would've been incorporated in the latest version.
 
474218
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:01 am

Quoting Charliecossie (Reply 4):
That would be illegal in any JAA or FAA country (probably any country). Unless you're going to print it all every day, of course.

The maintenance manual is not an FFA approved document, only the AFM and SRM are actually FAA approved.

Manufactures update manuals on a set schedule, every three months, semi-annually, or annually. Should something require immediate action, before the next revision a "Temporary Revision" is issued, but these only include the new information, not the entire manual or even the chapter or sub-chapter.
 
charliecossie
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:59 am

Speechless.................................
 
miamiair
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:50 am

Quoting Erj-145mech (Reply 11):
But you see, I am an inspector, and it is against our general maintenance manual. Unless you have an engineer thats able to approve not approved data thats in the not approved SRM, you're out of luck. I don't know of an engineer that will approve something that the manufacturer won't approve.

Keep in mind that I am referring to the 707 SRM. The last revision to the SRM was in 1988. Just because Boeing does not incorporate the repair into their SRM doesn't mean that they don't approve of it. I have proposed repairs to Boeing which were AMC to an AD, they approved it and issued an 8110-3 for it.

Operators have a wider latitude when it comes to their repairs. If they present it to their IPM and approve it, it is FAA approved. In the case I mentioned above, If I were a mechanic for PanAm and used one of these repairs on a PanAm airplane, everything is fine. The minute that airplane gets sold to XYZ airlines, the repair would have to be substantiated with an 8110-3 as the airplane is no longer under PanAm's certificate.

I work for a 145 repair station, and for example if there is a flap that has a puncture in it, I am supposed to repair it per Boeing's SRm, right? Wrong, I am supposed to follow the air carrier's instructions, even if it means glue plywood on it with liquid nails and paint it pink. In absence of such instructions from the air carrier, then I use the OEM's repair data.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
ReidYYZ
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:12 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 5):
Somehow I knew Someone would post about the Legal aspect.

I'm actually shocked. This coming from the king of "Out here the regs state..........and they are strictly adhered to."

Welcome to the dark side.
 
dl757md
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:09 am

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 10):
If you have the full-blown version of Acrobat, not the READER, you can go into Documents, extract the pages you need, save them as another file name, using a dash number at the end.

Unless the creator of the pdf file locked them.

DL757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Mon Nov 21, 2005 12:34 pm

I think the confusion is arising as Some Learned Mx personnell believe in referring the Manuals only to Workout a problem while some Refer the Books just for Info sake & so are aware what page to refer when the problem arises.

One common factor is All in Mx will refer the latest Issue of the AMM for Mx related work.

The question was Instead of loading the Entire AMM [legal] on to the HDD.If only the Troubleshooting chapters could be extracted & Downloaded on a Notebook,"For personal study".This does not state that the Personal study notes will be used for rectification.

The query was how to Extract the required PDF pages without the Entire Chapter getting copied.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Tod
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:44 am

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 16):
Unless the creator of the pdf file locked them.

Unfortunately sometimes Boeing does that.

Tod
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:51 pm

Quoting Tod (Reply 18):
Unfortunately sometimes Boeing does that.

What about Airbus.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
scarebus03
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:16 am

Hawk

Airbus use the AIRNAV system for their documentation which includes AMM,TSM,IPC and ESPM. Copying from AIRNAV is impossible as far as I'm aware. The Adobe version is locked as well as Boeing


Regards

SB03
No faults found......................
 
474218
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:10 am

Quoting Scarebus03 (Reply 20):
Airbus use the AIRNAV system for their documentation which includes AMM,TSM,IPC and ESPM. Copying from AIRNAV is impossible as far as I'm aware. The Adobe version is locked as well as Boeing

What about the SRM?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:00 pm

Quoting Scarebus03 (Reply 20):
The Adobe version is locked as well as Boeing

Guess it makes sense too.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
scarebus03
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RE: Extracting AMM Chapters.

Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:20 pm

474218

The Airbus S.R.M. is not part of AIRNAV for the A320 family. It is in Adobe format, for the other types I'm not sure,

Brgds

SBO3
No faults found......................

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