ReidYYZ
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Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:39 pm

With the occasional thread of 'lets buy this a/c, start our own airline...' I though it might be interesting for some out there as to exactly what some of these parts cost. These are replacement value, not overhaul costs. Keep in mind, when a carrier starts up, they have nothing and have to buy 'off the shelf'. These are for RR powered A330. All prices are in Canadian peso:

apu ignitor- $300.00 (2)
engine ignitor- $350.00 (4)
engine mount bolt- $1000.00 (16)
hp oil filter- $600.00 (2)
scavenge oil filter- $280.00 (2)
aileron actuator servo- $60,000.00 (8)
main wheel assy- $17,600.00 (8)
main wheel brake assy- $60,000.00 (8)
engine driven hyd pump- $35,000.00 (4)
flt deck clock- $12,000.00 (2)
wing tank boost pump- $35,000.00 (8)
engine fan blade- $48,000.00 (54)
door slide/raft assy- $65,000.00 (8)
main battery- $7,600.00 (2)
engine pneumatic starter- $66,700.00 (2)

The big ticket items:
ECAM, PFD, ND display unit- $140,000.00 (6)
flight control primary computer- $240,000.00 (3)
flight control unit(autopilot control panel on eyebrow)- $172,000.00 (1)
flight management guidance envelope computer- $493,000.00 (2)
integrated drive generator- $400,000.00 (2)
electronic engine control unit- $635,000.00 (2)
apu- $844,000.00 (1)

figures in (brackets) are qty per aircraft. Yes, you can get loaner parts, The running price most times is 10% of the units value PER DAY. After ten days you paid full price, but only to rent it and have to return it.

Any other prices out there?

[Edited 2005-11-29 09:43:51]
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:41 am

Rule of thumb is replacement parts cost 250% of manufacturing costs. If the prices seem outrageous, realize aircraft parts are all qualified (tested) unlike most mass produced items.

Quoting ReidYYZ (Thread starter):
All prices are in Canadian peso:

Canadian Peso?  rotfl  Does on split the difference and get the US dollar?

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
erj-145mech
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:43 am

There's actually a very scientific algorithmic formula used to price out aircraft parts. I'm going to go out on the limb and reveal this super secret formula to the members of airliners.net, but you must swear on the graves of Wilbur and Orville Wright that you will never, ever repeat this, or indicate where you became aware to this secret.


Ready?

You take the part number, and put a $ sign in front of it!
 
Pyrex
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:02 am

Quoting ReidYYZ (Thread starter):
aircraft maintenance is like taking a crap, the job isn't done until the paperwork is complete.

 rotfl 

Looking at that list I would imagine that with "power-by-the-hour" schemes as R-R offers the cost of the engine sold must be at least twice the list price.

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 1):
Rule of thumb is replacement parts cost 250% of manufacturing costs.

With those prices is it common for airlines to buy complete replacement engines and just cannibalize them for parts or do they use the replacement ones merely to keep aircraft in the air as long as possible.
And does a replacement engine also cost 250% of the price of one sold "underneath the wings" when bought standalone?
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
Dougloid
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:30 am

Garrett had MSP which is more or less the same as Rolls power by the hour.

The engines are in a pool, and what you pay per hour annually is a function of how much it cost to maintain the fleet. You may have to take your aircraft in at an inconvenient time to get service bulletins done, and they aren't near as nit picky as you'd be if it was your own motor.

Most people thought it was a pretty good deal. I like Rolls' real time trend monitoring they do-that is a great improvement. P&W Canada had a similar syustem but it was before the days of real time anything.

Anyone got any G2 about what parameters are monitored?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Matt72033
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:03 am

just a few prices ive been told in the past....not sure how accurate they are

Magnetic chip detector £25,000
An old lecturer of mine was using one to hold his garage door open  Wink
EEC for a CF6 around £6-700,000
FADEC for a GE90 over a million £
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:04 am

1 blade from the first stage high pressure turbine of a F22 engine, $1000 Engine requires 58 of them. That is wholesale, I have no idea what the government is paying for them.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:38 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 3):
And does a replacement engine also cost 250% of the price of one sold "underneath the wings" when bought standalone?

actually, no! Replacement engines bought *with* the new airframe ("underneath the wings") are sold pretty cheap. We had one clever customer who somehow sneaked in a provision for 50% spare engines with the odd proviso that they were buying them slowly over time... turns out the new spare engines were cheaper than a rebuild, so the old engines were just scrapped for parts while the aircraft flew on the new engines. To say the least, that mistake wasn't made twice.

The engine business is a "razor blade business." In other words, "give away the razor and make the money on the blades." Spare parts are the lifeblood of an engine company.

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 5):
FADEC for a GE90 over a million £

Really?!? that's one hell of a mark up, more than the 250% "rule of thumb." I somehow doubt they're that much... FADEC's are too easy to steal and don't cost $400,000 from the vendor...  scratchchin  You can't walk out with an engine under your coat, but you might get by with a FADEC!  scratchchin 

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:19 pm

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 5):
Magnetic chip detector £25,000
An old lecturer of mine was using one to hold his garage door open

How was he doing that with a chip detector.  Smile
The Prices of Aircraft spares just see the reason where correct Mx descisions with regards to component replacemenrts are so important in contributing the to the Airlines expenditures.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Dalmd88
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:40 pm

When ever friends ask "Why are airfares so high?" I usually bring up parts cost. One of my favorites from overhaul was trailing edge door hinges on the MD88. There are two trailing edge doors per wing at the flap/wing juncture which tend to have worn hinges at most overhauls. They are simple aluminum piano style. There are six hinge halves per door. Each cost $200. So with Hilocks we have consumed$1250 per door. To change them the door has to be removed from the airplane. It takes about 12 manhours per door to R&R the hinges. I use a shop rate of $40/hr which is a little low. MRO standard is about $44/hr. So that's $480 per door. For four doors that is $6920 per airplane.
 
aogdesk
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:54 pm

The absolute best one that I've seen was on a state of the art DC-8. Just above the F/E's desk there's storage box for an 02 mask. Some of the planes have a door over the box, some don't. On one bird, the door was damaged and DMI'd. Checked the DMI logs and it was quoted at $13,000 USD with a lead time of close to a year. For whatever reason it was deemed that sheetmetal couldn't fabricate a replacement for 1/1000 of that cost......

ReidYYZ has a good point about spares prices. When people complain about their high fare, they have NO idea of the complexity and cost of maintaining these machines. IMO, airlines have done a very poor job of explaining to their customer why they SHOULD be paying alot.
 
Whiskeyflyer
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:31 pm

overhead bin latch cover $400 each and lead time six weeks from OEM
sheet metal shop are making them for about $10 each. Its a cosmetic piece so we certify them, wasn't exactly rocket science to make them.
A lot of big companied assume all parts have to come from OEM (or somebody is getting more than from the suppliers than a christmas card, know what I mean)
bad side of the price gourging is more and more Bogus parts entering the market
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:07 pm

Quoting Whiskeyflyer (Reply 11):
bad side of the price gourging is more and more Bogus parts entering the market

Thats where trusted vendors are so very Important.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
willo
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:54 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 1):
If the prices seem outrageous, realize aircraft parts are all qualified (tested) unlike most mass produced items.

Exactly! There has to be traceability back to the raw material for the products we produce. Every aspect of the manufacture has to be documented. We audit our suppliers and our customers audit us. We are also subject to independent audit by the CAA and British Standards (for our ISO). These costs have to be recouped.

Spare parts are quite often for out of production units, so there isn't the benefit of "production" prices. On top of that, we are expected to support our products for 20 years or longer, which means keeping stock and/or the tooling plus the drawings (we regularly repair fans dating back to the early 70's). So yes, parts do fetch outrageous prices!
 
n685fe
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:53 am

Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 9):
I use a shop rate of $40/hr which is a little low.

That is a pretty low price, in a lot of shops that would barely covers the hourly wage. Then add to that the employee's benefit package, then any cost to recover for shop tools/equipment and consumables. The cost quickly adds up.

Just the other night I installed a CVR that was over $24,000. Then I moved over to another job, $650 for the light strip on a map chart holder. I will try to track how much passes through my hands in one night during the hub turn (average 170 aircraft in 4-5 hours).
psp. lead by example
 
Matt72033
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:07 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 8):
How was he doing that with a chip detector

i'm not entirely sure! lol
 
jeffry747
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:29 pm

Some years ago a UPS 763 was struck by a loader on its right side aileron. The replacement aileron was said to have cost $10k alone.
C'mon Big B, FLY!
 
Slcpilot
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:07 pm

Actually, I find it very hard to believe the aileron cost $10K. Heck, my guess is even $100K is low, but I haven't priced them lately  Wink.

Would a salvage part from an old 762 work?

SLCPilot
I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:31 pm

Quoting Jeffry747 (Reply 16):
Some years ago a UPS 763 was struck by a loader on its right side aileron. The replacement aileron was said to have cost $10k alone

What happens in such scenario.I don't think the Employee faulted can afford the fine.
Is $10K for a new replacement or used.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
A319XFW
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:54 am

I rememeber a (titanium) bracket for a CFM thrust reverser (essentially a foot long bit of L-shaped metal) costing around $1000 CDN.
FQIC's and other boxes are nice and expensive too...  Smile
 
joness0154
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:51 am

US$1500 to RECHARGE an engine fire bottle...
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:02 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 18):
Quoting Jeffry747 (Reply 16):
Some years ago a UPS 763 was struck by a loader on its right side aileron. The replacement aileron was said to have cost $10k alone

What happens in such scenario.I don't think the Employee faulted can afford the fine.

His employer should provide insurance for this. If they try to charge him for it the apron would be overrun by lawyers within a matter of minutes. And then the airlines would start to complain that they can't taxi, and the pax would complain they don't get anywhere, and the A.nutters wouldn't get clean shots. all kinds of crap...

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 1):
If the prices seem outrageous, realize aircraft parts are all qualified (tested) unlike most mass produced items.

I saw this docu about private jets. They were explaining how everything had to be fire certified with a test, including such extremely flammable items as the granite coffee table and countertops...
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:46 am

If I remember correctly FedEx spent 9 million per plane to retrofit their DC10 3 person cockpits to 2 person MD11 cockpits. My sales rep told me that. I don't know if is true or not.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
aogdesk
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:28 am

Quoting Jeffry747 (Reply 16):
Some years ago a UPS 763 was struck by a loader on its right side aileron. The replacement aileron was said to have cost $10k alone.

I think you might have omitted a "0"  Smile
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:33 am

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 19):
I rememeber a (titanium) bracket for a CFM thrust reverser (essentially a foot long bit of L-shaped metal) costing around $1000 CDN

Isn't that the part that took out the concord?
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:59 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 21):
His employer should provide insurance for this

What happens to the erring Employee.And his future carrier.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
fr8mech
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:23 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 25):
What happens to the erring Employee.And his future carrier

If any mechanic here causes damage to an aircraft, he is usually disciplined and retrained. It also depends on the chain of events that led to the incident. Were procedures followed? Horseplay involved? Just not being careful enough?

More likely than not, the ramp employee is let go. Then he and the union, if applicable, must fight for his job back. Sometimes they succeed, sometimes not. It depends on the circumstances.

By the way, my guess is that an outboard aileron for a B767 goes for well over $100,000.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
Matt72033
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:40 pm

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 26):
More likely than not, the ramp employee is let go. Then he and the union, if applicable, must fight for his job back. Sometimes they succeed, sometimes not. It depends on the circumstances.

Same here, we have a situation lately where the company we use for loading and such now report absolutely everything, before they load, the inspect the cargo door and ask us to look at anything they thinks not right before they continue, to cover there own backs. my colleague was asked to check the rear cargo bay door for damage the other day after they hit it with there loader, he told me it did more damage to their loader and he wasnt going to report it cos they guy would end up losing his job an there was no damage done to the aircraft!
 
A319XFW
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:11 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 24):
Isn't that the part that took out the concord?

Nope, the part that took out Concorde was from a CO jet, thus being a Long Range aircraft (as it was in CDG), this was for an A319/A320  

[Edited 2005-12-03 15:12:20]
 
777wt
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:36 am

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 28):
Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 24):
Isn't that the part that took out the concord?

Nope, the part that took out Concorde was from a CO jet, thus being a Long Range aircraft (as it was in CDG), this was for an A319/A320

The part that was found on the runway and brought up in the concorde investigation was a part from a CO DC-10 engine seal.
 
A319XFW
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:53 am

Quoting 777WT (Reply 29):

Thanks for clarifying. Does CO still have DC-10's? Great birds. I used to fly them with AY. I remember as a kid they just looked huge next to their DC-9's!
Last I flew one was with NW but that wasn't the best of experiences as I had a real bad seat.  crowded 
 
777wt
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:48 am

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 30):
Thanks for clarifying. Does CO still have DC-10's? Great birds. I used to fly them with AY. I remember as a kid they just looked huge next to their DC-9's!
Last I flew one was with NW but that wasn't the best of experiences as I had a real bad seat.

They all have been retired.
 
UAL Bagsmasher
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:25 am

A CRJ-200 IDG runs around $250K. I heard that the pressurization panel in the cockpit runs over $100K. But we have to keep flying people coast to coast for $99...
 
ReidYYZ
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:34 pm

I found out some prices for support:

technical support (1 Mech/Avionic): $90.00/hr min. 4 hrs

ground power unit: min charge $90.00
per 30 min. or fraction $45.00

apu/idg oil service cart: $100.00 per use

jet start: wide body min charge $160.00
per 30 min. or fraction $80.00
w/ operator $60.00/hr

hangar for wide body: min 24hr charge $6000.00
12 hr or fraction $3000.00
additional door opening $500.00 (nov to mar)

These of course are the screw you prices. But if you're just going to do someone a favour, the small stuff (spare can of oil, use of idg cart, tire pressure gauge...) will cost you $1.20 for a medium double double at Timmies for a friend. Unfortunately, hangar use for a crapped out '47 can't be hidden.

[Edited 2005-12-04 15:35:28]
 
jeffry747
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:12 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 18):
What happens in such scenario.I don't think the Employee faulted can afford the fine.

Of course the company has to foot the bill, and the employee is promptly fired with little to no chance of the union getting his job. If the employee does get lucky enough to actually keep his job, then he is transferred to a non-ramp position.

Quoting Aogdesk (Reply 23):
I think you might have omitted a "0"

Do they really cost close to 100k If that's the case, then all I can say is DAMN!!!

Quoting Jeffry747 (Reply 16):
a UPS 763 was struck by a loader on its right side aileron.

Just for the record, it wasn't me. In my 7 1/2 years at UPS' SDF hub, I never got the chance to operate a deck loader.
C'mon Big B, FLY!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:09 pm

Quoting Jeffry747 (Reply 34):
Of course the company has to foot the bill

If the Aircraft has Insurance.Is Ground related Damage covered by it.What the procedure.Is it similiar to that of an Autmobile.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Tod
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:58 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 21):
I saw this docu about private jets. They were explaining how everything had to be fire certified with a test, including such extremely flammable items as the granite coffee table and countertops...

It's this way with commerial aircraft too. We even have to do flam testing when we change the color of paint on a piece of aluminum. About the only non-metalic things that don't get burned are parted that are already present on that exact aircraft when it was type certified. It's become a bit over the top, it used to OK to not test non-metallic parts that have been installed previously on any FAA type certified aircraft of the same model.

Those smoke eaters (flam certification engineers) are making a great living lately.

Tod
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:46 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 21):
including such extremely flammable items as the granite coffee table and countertops...

Good point!

And yes, don't forget the paperwork. I just got hit in an audit where paper I created 18 months ago was found "deficient."  Sad Luckily it was a paper mistake and not a configuration error. You don't want to know what a circus you get to go through if you *ever* lose configuration control. Ugh...

As to paint, we're stuck using select, *certified* batches. I don't want to know how much each costs. (We have to check out the paint gallon by gallon to maintain configuration control.)

Quoting Willo (Reply 13):
Exactly! There has to be traceability back to the raw material for the products we produce.

Boy do I know about this. I'm on a program where to get extended part lives we are selectively picking materials from individual heats from the foundries. They charge $100k/yr for the privilege of seeing the heat lot database prior to purchase. In other words, not only are we specifying certain specifications of aerospace metals, we've dramatically tightened up the allowed metal chemical content. This makes the individual parts much more expensive, but saves money by over doubling their lives.  Smile Thankfully, I had a ton of chemistry in grad school... Otherwise I would be in trouble!

Quoting ReidYYZ (Reply 33):
additional door opening $500.00 (nov to mar)

Talk about nit picking! Actually, I'm amazed at the number of people it takes to open a hanger door. We have to do multiple safety announcements, send out two guys with radios to verify the area is clear, etc. I presume the nov to mar time frame is due to heating being factored in.

Those hanger costs are why the PW6000 was designed to be serviced by a tech in a NBC suit. Why? If it could be serviced in an NBC suit, it could be serviced in any winter gear anywhere in the world. They charge quite a bit for the field tool kit for the pw6000, but one man can carry every tool needed for flightline service. (Well... does not include the FADAC checkout electronic tools and stuff like that, just the wrenches and such.)

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:57 am

Just to give one example: The Thielert Diesel engine for the Cessna 172 costs something about 40000€.

This engine is a modified DaimlerChrysler car engine. The engine alone would certainly cost maybe 5000€, so development of the aviation specific parts, certification costs and, of course, profit margin lead to a prize which is somewhat higher than the car engine...

Of course, there aren't 100000 aviation engines sold in 3years. Nevertheless, the pricing difference is incredible!

Michael
 
ReidYYZ
Topic Author
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:31 pm

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 37):
due to heating being factored in.

Its the only factor. Wear and tear on the hangar door is not even a consideration.
 
Tod
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RE: Aircraft Parts Cost...how Much!?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:01 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 37):
You don't want to know what a circus you get to go through if you *ever* lose configuration control.

That sure depends on the country.
I have been shocked by the lack of configuration control that I've seen recently. I understand how hard it can be, especially on aging aircraft, but it's a bit disappointing to see on relatively new widebodies. Leased aircraft that have changed hands seem to be the most susceptible to loss of configuration control. Make me appreciate the MRO's that run a tight ship.

Tod

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