hamad130
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Runway Light Inoperative . Is The Airfield Closed?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:11 am

Hi all
IF THE RUNWAY LIGHT ( CL ) CENTER LINE&( REIL) RUNWAY EDGE LIGHT ) NOT WORKING DURING NIGHT OPERATING . CAN I LAND IN THIS AIRFIELD OR IT WILL BE CLOSED . ? WHAT IS THE REFRENCE HERE ?

THANK U
( A GOOD PILOT IS ALWAYES LEARNING )
( A GOOD PILOT IS ALWAYS LEARNING )
 
Ralgha
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RE: Runway Light Inoperative . Is The Airfield Closed?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:57 am

There are no regulations saying that you need runway lights to land/takeoff at night (part 91 ops). You'd be pretty reckless if you did so unless there was no other option though.
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xjramper
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RE: Runway Light Inoperative . Is The Airfield Closed?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:55 am

WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?

If a tower operated airport (24 hours) has the lights off, it is for a reason. This usually means that the runway(s) is/are closed. However, if its a tower that has operating hours (such as tower closed between 0500-1100Z) the lights are operated by the pilot. This also applies to the non towered fields. I am not sure about the international regs on this tho.

Ralgha said it right:

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 2):
You'd be pretty reckless if you did so unless there was no other option though.

Reckless and stupid.

Hope this helps.

XJR
Look ma' no hands!
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Runway Light Inoperative . Is The Airfield Closed?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:33 am

It really depends on the OPSPEC for the airline you're working for. However if the question is for GA, then the answer is no. There is no requirement for runway lights, REIL, or C/L lights to be working.
Fly fast, live slow
 
bond007
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RE: Runway Light Inoperative . Is The Airfield Closed?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:09 am

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 2):
There are no regulations saying that you need runway lights to land/takeoff at night (part 91 ops).

Right, and for FAA Part 135, and Part 121 it is a requirement to land only at a lighted runway/heliport at night.

As an interesting (perhaps) side note - I have watched C130s at ILG doing touch-and-goes at night and requesting the lights be turned OFF!


Jimbo
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Ralgha
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RE: Runway Light Inoperative . Is The Airfield Closed?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:15 am

It's really not hard to land on a runway with no runway lights, provided your landing lights work and you are familiar with the area. In fact, it's not a bad idea to try it once or twice WITH SOMEONE WHO KNOWS THE AIRPORT WELL, and where you can turn on the lights if you need them. There may come a time when an emergency dictactes that you land at an airport without the convienience of runway lights, if you've done it before, you'll be much more comfortable with the situation.
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Fokker Lover
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RE: Runway Light Inoperative . Is The Airfield Closed?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:40 am

The real question is, what if the runway conveyor belt is not operational. What do you do then?
10,000 years ago we would have eaten you. Today, we drag you along and allow you to pollute the gene pool.
 
Ralgha
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RE: Runway Light Inoperative . Is The Airfield Closed?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:09 am

Well, then you're screwed, because everyone knows that if the tires hit a surface that's not moving at the same speed as the aircraft then the tires will explode.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Runway Light Inoperative . Is The Airfield Closed?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:28 pm

Quoting Fokker Lover (Reply 7):
The real question is, what if the runway conveyor belt is not operational. What do you do then?



Quoting Ralgha (Reply 8):
Well, then you're screwed, because everyone knows that if the tires hit a surface that's not moving at the same speed as the aircraft then the tires will explode.



Back to the topic.Won't the Rotating beacon on the Tower indicate its status.
Also most Runways have back up systems installed.I personally like the Brightness selection in FOG weather.where the Intensity of the lights can be gradually increased.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
A346Dude
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RE: Runway Light Inoperative . Is The Airfield Closed?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:28 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 8):
Quoting Fokker Lover (Reply 7):
The real question is, what if the runway conveyor belt is not operational. What do you do then?



Quoting Ralgha (Reply 8):
Well, then you're screwed, because everyone knows that if the tires hit a surface that's not moving at the same speed as the aircraft then the tires will explode.

Anet will never be the same after the great conveyor belt debate of 2005.  Silly
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
stall
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RE: Runway Light Inoperative . Is The Airfield Closed?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:57 pm

Quoting Xjramper (Reply 2):
Reckless and stupid.

But you can find yourself where you had to divert (due to fog for example at the first airport) to an alternate and suddenly in the pattern the runway lights go off. What do you do if there is no other alternate.

You have to land.

If you have never practiced a night landing without runway lights that's will instantaneously become a challenging task. But if you had already done it, it will be easier and safer.

I think it is best to practice that kind of landing with a CFI with good knowledge of the field. When I learned to fly my instructor did exactly that, it was actually fun and a precious learning experience.

If I have the option to land with runway lights on that will be the option I will choose.
Flying is fun
 
xjramper
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RE: Runway Light Inoperative . Is The Airfield Closed?

Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:45 am

Quoting Stall (Reply 10):
But you can find yourself where you had to divert (due to fog for example at the first airport) to an alternate and suddenly in the pattern the runway lights go off.

You would land?

Hmm...methinks not. Even if you have to go missed, then go missed. But, attempt to turn them back on if you are on base or even turning into final. I always be safe when flying at night and re-cue the lights just so that never happens.

XJR
Look ma' no hands!
 
A346Dude
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RE: Runway Light Inoperative . Is The Airfield Closed?

Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:09 am

Quoting XJRamper (Reply 11):
You would land?

Hmm...methinks not. Even if you have to go missed, then go missed. But, attempt to turn them back on if you are on base or even turning into final. I always be safe when flying at night and re-cue the lights just so that never happens.

OK, but what if there is a power failure at the airport or something like that, so re-cueing the lights does nothing. And to compound the problem, as this is your alternate, you are almost out of fuel and not within range of any other airport. Improbable, perhaps, but in this case the best option is clearly to land on the runway without the aid of lights.
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
joness0154
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RE: Runway Light Inoperative . Is The Airfield Closed?

Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:31 am

Quoting XJRamper (Reply 11):
You would land?

Hmm...methinks not. Even if you have to go missed, then go missed. But, attempt to turn them back on if you are on base or even turning into final. I always be safe when flying at night and re-cue the lights just so that never happens.

Well, here's my take on it and it has to do with 91.175.

If you're IFR on an approach to an uncontrolled field with PCL, the only way you can decend below MDA is having

threshold
threshold lights
threshold markings
runway
runway lights
runway markings
TDZ
TDZ lights
TDZ markings

If I'm on an approach and the lights go out and I can't see the runway, I'd go missed but if I can still see the runway, TDZ, threshold, etc and their markings I would continue on and land, as you are using them as a reference anyway, not the lights.

If you can physically see the runway at night (full moon, etc) then its alright in my book to continue to land. The lights do not illuminate the runway per se, they only outline it but if you have the physical runway in sight it doesn't matter IMO.
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem

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