julesmusician
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"I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:55 am

Another thing I heard recently was from one of the pilots coming in to land was "I just got a windshear warning on the system" - how does that work and what system might he be referring to in the cockpit?

J
African Civil Aviation Commission president "You don't want to fly out as a passenger and come back as cargo."
 
Matt72033
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:13 am

system to warn him that there's windshear about! i think its a function of the weather radar......dont quote me on this!

on the 744 'WINDSHEAR' will appear at the bottom of the PFD in red accompanied by the aural windshear message.

normally followed by a go around

[Edited 2005-12-02 19:15:38]
 
joness0154
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:19 am

Windshear is detected using microwave radar, doppler LIDAR, or infrared sensors.

They basically detect rain drops and particles in the air and caculate wind speed based on the movement of them .



[Edited 2005-12-02 19:20:41]
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
julesmusician
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:19 am

Very interesting so what actually happens in a modern cockpit when windshear is detected? Does something scream at you or how does it alert you? Potentially windshear is quite dangerous and therefore I would think that the warning would need to be immediate and clear.
African Civil Aviation Commission president "You don't want to fly out as a passenger and come back as cargo."
 
Matt72033
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:31 am

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 1):
on the 744 'WINDSHEAR' will appear at the bottom of the PFD in red accompanied by the aural windshear message
 
julesmusician
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:37 am

Sorry Matt missed that. It was interesting as pilots were reporting that while coming into Heathrow tonight. One pilot even said "oh it might be a system problem" - also lots of pilots were reporting "I have 60 knots at 180 up here" - I am not sure what relevance that is as I assume the autopilot will handle whatever you throw at it?
African Civil Aviation Commission president "You don't want to fly out as a passenger and come back as cargo."
 
Matt72033
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:58 am

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 4):
"I have 60 knots at 180 up here"

60 knots? thats one hell of a wind....dont think id be too inclined to land in that! lol
i'm no pilot, but i think if i was hearing windshear screamed at me on final approach, i wouldnt be too keen on landing!
 
joness0154
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:03 am

In windshear conditions I believe it is advised to turn off autopilots and autothrottles and hand fly the aircraft.
I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem
 
julesmusician
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:19 am

in the case at Heathrow tonight the controller said
"can you give me reason for going around?"
"Yes windshear warning went off so went around"
"did you tell tower?"
"negative not sure if fault on system"

Any pilots like to describe SOP's when windshear warning goes when on approach?

J
African Civil Aviation Commission president "You don't want to fly out as a passenger and come back as cargo."
 
Matt72033
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:38 am

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 7):
In windshear conditions I believe it is advised to turn off autopilots and autothrottles and hand fly the aircraft

again i'm not sure but dont some autopilots automatically disconnect in these kind of weather situations?
 
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zeke
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:06 am

WINDSHEAR

The message “WINDSHEAR” is displayed in red on each PFD associated with an
aural synthetic voice “WINDSHEAR” repeated three times.
If windshear is detected either by the system or pilot observation, apply the followingrecovery procedure.

Windshear Recovery Procedure
Take-off

The take-off should be rejected only if significant airspeed variations occur below indicated V1 and there is sufficient runway remaining to stop the aircraft.
− ANNOUNCE ..........................................“WINDSHEAR − GO”
− THR LEVERS..........................................TOGA
− REACHING VR.........................................ROTATE
− SRS ORDERS..........................................FOLLOW
Note : If windshear is encountered near VR and airspeed suddenly decreases or stagnates, initiate a normal rotation at least 2,000 FT before the end of the
runway, even if airspeed is low.

Airborne − initial climb or landing
− ANNOUNCE ...........................................“WINDSHEAR − GO”
− THR LEVERS..........................................TOGA
− SRS ORDERS..........................................FOLLOW
AP (if engaged) .....................................KEEP
DO NOT CHANGE CONFIGURATION UNTIL OUT OF SHEAR
− CLOSELY MONITOR FLIGHT PATH AND SPEED
− RECOVER SMOOTHLY TO NORMAL CLIMB WHEN OUT OF SHEAR
Notes :
Take-off and landing:
1. SRS orders may include the use of full back stick, if demanded.
2. AP will disengage if a > a prot.
3. If FD is not available, initially use a pitch attitude up to 12.5°. If necessary to minimize the height loss, this pitch attitude may be increased.
Report :
1. Report the encounter to ATC.
2. Raise ASR/Maintenance Log entry.


WINDSHEAR AHEAD

[W/S AHEAD red]

The message “W/S AHEAD” is displayed on each PFD. The colour of the message depends on the severity and location of the windshear.

Take-off

Associated with an aural synthetic voice “WINDSHEAR AHEAD, WINDSHEAR AHEAD”.
· Before take-off
− Delay take-off or select the most favourable runway.
· During take-off run
− Reject take-off

· When airborne
− THR LEVERS.........................................TOGA
− SRS ORDERS.........................................FOLLOW
AP (if engaged)....................................KEEP

Landing

Associated with an aural synthetic voice “GO-AROUND, WINDSHEAR AHEAD”.
Note : If a positive verification is made that no hazard exists, the warning may be considered cautionary.
− ANNOUNCE................................“GO-AROUND − FLAPS _____”
− THR LEVERS..............................TOGA
− SRS ORDERS .............................FOLLOW
− FLAPS......................................RETRACT ONE STEP
− L/G..........................................UP
AP (if engaged) .......................KEEP
Notes :
Take-off and landing:
1. L/G and flap/slat may be retracted in accordance with normal procedures provided the windshear is not entered.
2. If windshear is encountered perform the WINDSHEAR recovery procedure.
3. SRS orders may include the use of full back stick, if demanded.
4. AP will disengaged if a > a prot.
W/S AHEAD amber
[Associated with an aural synthetic voice “MONITOR RADAR DISPLAY”.
− Apply precautionary measures as indicated in FCTM
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
julesmusician
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:23 am

Brilliant and interesting. Don't suppose you have the SRS orders for this SOP do you?

Cheers,

J
African Civil Aviation Commission president "You don't want to fly out as a passenger and come back as cargo."
 
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zeke
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:28 am

SRS = speed referance system, i.e. follow flight director.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
julesmusician
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:32 am

Therefore if the AP is engaged it will just follow SRS - any idea where I can find a good explanation of SRS what it is etc? Cheers,

J
African Civil Aviation Commission president "You don't want to fly out as a passenger and come back as cargo."
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:36 am

Quoting Joness0154 (Reply 7):
In windshear conditions I believe it is advised to turn off autopilots and autothrottles and hand fly the aircraft.

It depends on the airplane.
 
PPVRA
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:31 am

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 6):

60 knots? thats one hell of a wind....dont think id be too inclined to land in that! lol

Yup, over 100kph... 60+mph = one hell of a wind  checkmark 

Cheers
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
julesmusician
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:01 pm

No the 60mph wind was what they were experiencing in the hold, I am not sure what the purpose of telling ATC was, it wasn't on landing.
African Civil Aviation Commission president "You don't want to fly out as a passenger and come back as cargo."
 
Woodreau
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:29 am

Windshear warning is different between different airplane types. On mine it's one of the modes of the GPWS and we get two different annunciations. A "yellow windshear" (which I think corresponds to the red W/S AHEAD which Zeke posted) which warns of the improving performance variety windshear, and a "red windshear" which warns of the decreasing performance variety windshear.

An go around is not an automatic thing when we get a windshear aural warning - it depends.

If we get the yellow windshear - it is not an automatic go around, it is up to captains discretion, and an approach to landing may be continued. However a yellow may turn into a red warning.

If we get the red windshear warning, we'll see it on the PFD along with the red "eyebrows" on the EADI with an aural "WINDSHEAR...WINDSHEAR...WINDSHEAR". The flight director automatically commands the windshear escape maneuver and you'll see it command a pitch up. If the autopilot is engaged, it will follow the flight director command bars for 2 seconds and then disconnect. We have to follow through by setting max continuous thrust (no autothrottles) and handfly - pitch to the stick shaker until we are clear of the windshear.

On the turboprop I flew, the windshear warning system are the pilots - nothing installed to help you recognize it, you just have to recognize the signs and hope you recognize it in time to make the appropriate decision at the right time.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
Matt72033
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:21 am

Quoting Woodreau (Reply 17):
Windshear warning is different between different airplane types. On mine it's one of the modes of the GPWS and we get two different annunciations

yeah on the 744 it comes up on the GPWS BITE test, but it doesn't work from the GPWS does it? after all GPWS is just a database of land really....when terrain shows on the ND, thats not whats actually there, its just what the database tells it thats there, this is why i assumed it was a function of the weather radar!
 
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zeke
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:26 am

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 18):
after all GPWS is just a database of land really....when terrain shows on the ND, thats not whats actually there, its just what the database tells it thats there, this is why i assumed it was a function of the weather radar!

Nope thats EGPWS...E for enhanced means terrain database and GPS input.

GPWS works off rad alt, altimiter, glideslope, flap and gear position.

"TOO LOW GEAR" "TOO LOW FLAP" "GLIDESLOPE" etc.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
Matt72033
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RE: "I Just Got A Windshear Warning On The System"

Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:15 am

ahhhhh i see.......thanks Zeke

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