kl671
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Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:47 am

I don't think that these lugs are installed to allow quick wing replacement, or to give maintainers somewhere to clip their safety harnesses to. The lug is at the very bottom of the first pic and there is one with two holes, centre left in the second.

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Anyone out there know what they are used for?
 
EMBQA
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:27 am

There intent is a place to tie off the life raft if so needed. They can also be used to tie down the aircraft if it is exposed to high winds....
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:30 am

Its the Lug to which the Attach rope is attached to,in order to help the Pax evacuated in an emergency.
The Emergency Escape slides mounted however have a bordered/walled area that guide the Pax during Evacuation.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
citationjet
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:46 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
There intent is a place to tie off the life raft if so needed.

Correct. These hooks are designed and sized such that if the airplane would sink with the lift rafts attached, they break away so that the airplane does not pull the life raft under the surface. Therefore I don't think they would be strong enough to tie down the airplane on the ground for strong surface winds.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
SkydrolBoy
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:09 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
They can also be used to tie down the aircraft if it is exposed to high winds....

Never seen anyone tie down a 320 Before.
 
320tech
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:25 pm

You guys kidding or what? Life rafts aren't launched from the wings - how would you get the thing through the emergency exit? The life rafts are on the pax doors - if there are any at all.

Tie downs? Are you tying it down while it's on its back? Having tripped over them a few times, I assure you that it will not break away to prevent a life raft from sinking with the aircraft.

If you look at the overhead bins, right by the emergency exit, there is a very narrow bin - about 3" wide. Inside there is a rope with a clip. Guess where it clips to.

The rope, I presume, is a last resort to get people off the wing, if the slide doesn't inflate. If the slides work, there's no need to use the rope.
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
 
ha763
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:14 pm

Quoting 320tech (Reply 5):
You guys kidding or what? Life rafts aren't launched from the wings - how would you get the thing through the emergency exit? The life rafts are on the pax doors - if there are any at all.

Supplemental life rafts are most definitely launched from the overwing exits and are required on overwater equipped aircraft that do not have enough slide/rafts for all pax. These can be basically found on all commercial aircraft with overwing exits. When packed, they easily fit into the overhead bins.

The open bin in this picture is right by the overwing exits of a 767-300 and the orange thing in the bin is a supplemental life raft for 46 people.


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Photo © Erik Nugal



I was an observer in an airline's FAA certification for emergency evac, which included a mock water landing evac. I was specifically asked by my boss, the airline safety director to observe the overwing evac and sat in a row right behind the overwing exit. I remember that the tie down was used not for life rafts, but a rope to help guide pax out of aircraft and off the wing. The supplemental life raft was tied down to a spot inside the aircraft and released by cutting the line with a knife that is attached to the raft right by the line.
 
A319XFW
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:17 pm

The 2 yellow rings are actually for mx operators to attach themselves to while working on the wing.... Don't know what the single one is for though, as if you tie yourself to that you'd be near to the edge already!

And the stupid answer for this would be that as the wings are made in the UK, it's to attach gliders to, should the need arise in a war... 

[Edited 2005-12-03 15:19:20]
 
A319XFW
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:25 pm

Quoting KL671 (Thread starter):
I don't think that these lugs are installed to allow quick wing replacement

P.S. The word 'quick' and 'wing replacement' do not go together!! Never heard of a wing replacement. Seen other crazy things being done with wings, but never a replacemrnt (well after it's attched that is). You'd have to go oversize holes on the complete cruciform and that probably won't get approved by anyone!
 
greasespot
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:24 am

On the B737 and 727 the hooks are for the guide line when you go out the over win exit. It stops the person from running out to the wing tip in an emergency. I am not sure they would be used in a real emergency but in training i have seen the F/A's use them. I would think they are the same for the Airbus because they look exactally the same and are in the same location.

Tieing off there would be no real advantage and there is not a lot of MTCE actions that take place on the wing tops. You enter the tanks and change pumps from under neath. Usually when you are up high you are not tied off to the airplane but to an over head restraint system. Plus the holes are way to small for the hooks on most safety lanyards.

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
A319XFW
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:57 am

I meant the other one further outboard. We were wondering about it when a colleague and I were working on a wing and looked it up....
And we also asked a wing design engineer and he said that was what it was for too!

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 9):
You enter the tanks and change pumps from under neath.

No need to remind me about entering tanks and changing pumps - I've got enough fuel, thyecol (spelling?) and the green vaseline stuff they put around the manholes on me for a lifetime! Big grin

[Edited 2005-12-03 20:05:40]
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:45 pm

Quoting SkydrolBoy (Reply 4):
Never seen anyone tie down a 320 Before.

Why Tie down an Aircraft from above the Wing  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
A319XFW
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:05 pm

You can tie them down at the nose when you're doing gear swings in jacked up position. That way your're sure it won't suddenly land on its behind.....
 
320tech
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:04 am

Why Tie down an Aircraft from above the Wing

You wouldn't.

You can tie them down at the nose when you're doing gear swings in jacked up position. That way your're sure it won't suddenly land on its behind.....

Nothing personal, but do you have some evidence for this ridiculous idea? When an A320 does a gear swing on jacks, the aircraft is supported on the three normal jacks only. The tail steady, which prevents the airplane from "sitting down", is removed to prevent damage to the tail.

The 2 yellow rings are actually for mx operators to attach themselves to while working on the wing.... Don't know what the single one is for though, as if you tie yourself to that you'd be near to the edge already!

Also not true.

Supplemental life rafts are most definitely launched from the overwing exits and are required on overwater equipped aircraft that do not have enough slide/rafts for all pax.

Thanks for the info. The question, though, is about the A320, not the 767. I've never seen supplemental life rafts on an A320 - not to say they don't exist - and I've never seen anything to say that they're used as tie-offs for life rafts.

I remember that the tie down was used not for life rafts, but a rope to help guide pax out of aircraft and off the wing.

Seems plausible to me, but again, life rafts are not launched off the wing, as far as I know.

Where's the call button on this thread - we need an A320 flight attendant.
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
 
miamiair
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:25 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 1):
They can also be used to tie down the aircraft if it is exposed to high winds....

They are called mooring points.

Quoting SkydrolBoy (Reply 4):
Never seen anyone tie down a 320 Before.

When your A320 is undergoing maintenance in, lets say, Miami, and it is summer, read hurricane season, and it just so happens a hurricane is coming and your A320 can't fly, you have to try to minimize the damage to it. Keep it from weather vaning, hitting other airplanes, ending up in a canal...All of this has happened at MIA.

On the 727, at the nose jack pad, this can also be used to tie the airplane down; to a tie down or weights.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
A319XFW
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:26 pm

Quoting 320tech (Reply 13):
Nothing personal, but do you have some evidence for this ridiculous idea? When an A320 does a gear swing on jacks, the aircraft is supported on the three normal jacks only. The tail steady, which prevents the airplane from "sitting down", is removed to prevent damage to the tail.

Yes, it's done on the FAL in Hamburg when the aircraft is jacked up for the gear swing tests as an extra safety precaution - that and there are probably people working in the cabin moving around (as for that particular test the customer can request to be there and witness it).
Probably not in service (in hindsight I have to agree with you, I never saw it in YWG), but for sure at the FAL.

Will have to check up on the lugs another time.





[Edited 2005-12-05 10:50:31]
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:34 am

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 12):
You can tie them down at the nose when you're doing gear swings in jacked up position. That way your're sure it won't suddenly land on its behind.....

Wasn't the Nose & Wing Jacks cater to the Aircraft while jacked & the Tail jack is a safety jack not carrying load.So how will a Tie down help.

Never heard this before.Where at the Nose is the Tiedown done & with what.
regds
MEL

[Edited 2005-12-05 16:36:18]
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
320tech
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:22 am

When the A320 is on jacks, even doing a swing, we have people working in the cabin. Additional support at the nose isn't required. I could see it on a DC-9 - one sat down when the forward pax seats were removed and a bunch of people were working in the back of the cabin - but an A320 C of G is far enough forward of the main gear that it sits just fine on the three jacks.

There is no attachment by the nose gear to allow you to attach any kind of support. Are you using a trestle or something else?

For what it's worth, when the engines are removed, we install a pallet of rails or concrete (about 4,000 lbs, I believe) in the forward cargo to make the airplane behave itself.
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
 
A319XFW
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:57 am

Quoting 320tech (Reply 17):
There is no attachment by the nose gear to allow you to attach any kind of support. Are you using a trestle or something else?

For what it's worth, when the engines are removed, we install a pallet of rails or concrete (about 4,000 lbs, I believe) in the forward cargo to make the airplane behave itself.

This is the case here too - engines aren't installed yet at this point.
It's not a trestle, more like a huge oversized backpack strap (technical term is eluding me now). I can't visualise where it is attached to now, so shall check tomorrow and update you then! (We'll get there in the end!)  Smile

[Edited 2005-12-05 18:00:36]
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:03 pm

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 18):
shall check tomorrow and update you then!

Any Update.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
A319XFW
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:23 am

Right, here we go:

Regarding the tie down. In the AMM I could only find a procedure for mooring when not on jacks (ATA 10-20).
Otherwise on the FAL when the aircraft is jacked up, the tie-rope is either attached over the drag strut assy of the NLG or then there is a special fitting that is attached by 4 bolts to the bottom-left of the L1 door (fuselage, not door). The holes are then sealed up.

Regarding the yellow lugs on the wing:

The single one is to tie down the overwing slide (see A319 CAOM 1.03.03 Page 11 Figure 2)

The double lugs further outboard are for tieing the "Life Lines" from above the emergency exits to it as a hand-hold (A319 CAOM 1.03.03 P.22). As the A319/A320 has the same wing, only one line is needed for the A319 (one exit), for A320 two lines needed (two exits).
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:40 pm

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 20):

Whats the update on the Tying of the Nose Jack with Aircraft jacked up.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
A319XFW
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:01 am

It's not tying the nose jack. It ties the nose (or front fuselage) of the aircraft down.
 
kl671
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:35 am

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 20):
The single one is to tie down the overwing slide (see A319 CAOM 1.03.03 Page 11 Figure 2)

The double lugs further outboard are for tieing the "Life Lines" from above the emergency exits to it as a hand-hold (A319 CAOM 1.03.03 P.22).

Thanks for the explanation. You have got to admire the flight attendant who would have to get out on the wing after an emergency to rig these lines!

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 8):
Never heard of a wing replacement.

I was joking when I suggested the lugs were for a "quick wing replacement". However they would have come in handy with this repair. Not even the same type of wing!

http://www.douglasdc3.com/dc2half/dc2half.htm

Thanks for all the replies.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:50 pm

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 22):
It's not tying the nose jack. It ties the nose (or front fuselage) of the aircraft down.

Sorry typo.
Any link/reference to the Tying of the nose during Aircraft on Jack procedure.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
A319XFW
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:46 am

There is an AMM task for "Shoring" the aircraft (ATA 7-10-00 if my memory serves me correctly) the aircraft when it's on jacks (the full title of the chapter is "Jacking and shoring").
This is done on the front and rear spar and is referenced to an SRM task.
 
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IFixPlanes
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:09 am

Quoting my Training Dokuments:

ATA 25-66 FLOATATION & SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT
Life Line Description
Life lines assist passengers evacuating the aircraft to remain on the wings after
ditching. The life lines are installed in the hatracks adjacent the emergency exits
(FR 38) left and right. Life line installation points are yellow in color for easy
identification and located as follows:
- inside each emergency exit hatch recess (top forward corner of the FWD exit; top rear corner of the AFT exit) and accessible only after the exit hatch is removed,
- on the upper surface of each wing, approximately above the outer limit of the engine nacelle

Life Lines
If an emergency occurs and the aircraft ditches, you must remove the exit
hatches and install the life lines. Snap hooks connect the lines to the installation
points, they are located at each end of the life lines. You can tighten the life
lines after installation when you pull on the tabs at the two sliding buckles.


never tell an engineer he is wrong ;-)
 
474218
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:22 am

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 8):
P.S. The word 'quick' and 'wing replacement' do not go together!! Never heard of a wing replacement. Seen other crazy things being done with wings, but never a replacemrnt (well after it's attched that is). You'd have to go oversize holes on the complete cruciform and that probably won't get approved by anyone!

Lockheed replaced the right hand wing on a L-1011 in the late 70's or early 80's. An Air Canada -500 (s/n 1206) right hand wing was damaged during final assembly, when the vent plugs were not removed before the tank was pressure tested. During the test a upper wing plank buckled and hundreds of rivets pulled through. To remove the wing a special fixture had to be built, the wing was cut off about a foot from the root, all the attaching fasteners were removed and hydraulic jacks were attached to the wing stub. Hydraulic pressure was then used to pull the wing from the wing box joint. The main problem was breaking loose the sealant which had fully cured. The new wing was installed using oversized fasteners and sleeving holes as required.
 
ha763
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:34 am

Quoting 320tech (Reply 13):
Thanks for the info. The question, though, is about the A320, not the 767. I've never seen supplemental life rafts on an A320 - not to say they don't exist...

That's why I quantified my statement by saying overwater equiped aircraft.

Quoting KL671 (Reply 23):
You have got to admire the flight attendant who would have to get out on the wing after an emergency to rig these lines!

The FAs are not the one who will be setting up the lines. It is the helper pax that will be doing it as part of their instructions from the FAs. The FAs would usually be one of the last ones out of the aircraft as they are directing everyone else out first.
 
320tech
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:00 am

A319XFW, thanks for the info. I can't say, though, that I've ever noticed a point on the emer exit where the line would hook onto. I looked at the image you provided, and it doesn't show anything. Got any idea?

The idea of strapping the NLG drag link (or what ever) still strikes me as a) unnecessary and b) possibly dangerous. What's the reason for doing this? Just "extra" security?
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
 
A319XFW
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:27 am

I didn't supply that pic, that was IFixPlanes so the thanks has to go to him. I just supplied the manual references!

The reason for it is that when the aircraft is still being worked on in a jacked up position, the engines aren't installed and work is in progress all around the aircraft.
Yes, extra safety is one of the considerations as the aircraft isn't in a fit for flight state at that time and is undergoing all tests and you never know what can happen as it might be in some strange configuration due to the build process or unscheduled installation/tests.
I don't know if it could happen, but it also might already have ACT's in the rear cargo hold - but that would already give you a rear CG for jacking.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:12 pm

Quoting 320tech (Reply 29):
The idea of strapping the NLG drag link (or what ever) still strikes me as a) unnecessary and b) possibly dangerous. What's the reason for doing this? Just "extra" security?

Will it make much of a difference practically.With or without the Tying.Also does Airbus recommend it.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
A319XFW
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:38 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 31):
Also does Airbus recommend it.

Regarding what Airbus recommends about this, it's probably best if you look at the AMM chapters of jacking, shoring and mooring.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:58 pm

Recently I flew on an Excel Airways 767 as an overwing exit passenger. The wing had a ringhook in exactly the same place, the safety cards the F/As *made* me and my fellow passenger in the exit rows read showed someone tying off the liferaft to these ringhooks so the raft doesnt float away.
 
kaddyuk
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:59 pm

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 8):
P.S. The word 'quick' and 'wing replacement' do not go together!! Never heard of a wing replacement. Seen other crazy things being done with wings, but never a replacemrnt (well after it's attched that is)

The closest i've heard is a mid-spar replacement on a B757 at BA... The aircraft was layed up for somewhere in the region of three months...
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
Airgypsy
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:20 am

Wing mate and demate are a maintenance procedures that few mechanics in the airlines ever see. Quite common in business aviation. They put it together, it comes apart. USAir had a 737-300 wing replaced back in the late 80s. Got hit by a Cessna 310. Boeing did the work.
As maintainers it is a good idea to be familiar with even the most complex depot level procedures. The complete fleet of C-5As had their wings replaced and it was done with support stands that floated over the floor on airpads. Remove the fasteners that originally joined the sections and push off.
The Travis ABF Museum did a wing demate and remate to get their B-29 from the desert to Travis AFB. The lugs that lifted the wings were not much bigger that those in the picture. If you look around for them, there are fasteners in the top of every wing for the lifting lugs were used to assemble the aircraft.
Think Big!
Most airliners have instructions for ropes or chains to their landing gear for extremely high winds but never for stabilization on jacks. Stabilizer jacks are used. The MD-80 was real cool looking with the tail and wings supported and that long nose hanging out in space. Some guys couldn't handle the "bounce" when the gear went up and down or there was going to be a crowd in the aircraft while it was on jacks and they would put in a stabilizer jack under the nose.
When you think of the takeoff speeds for airliners, why worry about a little breeze?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:55 pm

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 32):
it's probably best if you look at the AMM chapters of jacking, shoring and mooring.

Since you work on A320s & have access to the AMMs.Pls tell us.

Quoting Airgypsy (Reply 35):
The MD-80 was real cool looking with the tail and wings supported and that long nose hanging out in space. Some guys couldn't handle the "bounce" when the gear went up and down or there was going to be a crowd in the aircraft while it was on jacks and they would put in a stabilizer jack under the nose.

Is the Nose fuselage jack the Stablizing jack on an MD80.ie it does not take the load of Jacking.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
A319XFW
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:47 am

Quote for shores from the A320 AMM:

"Subtask 07-20-00-583-050

(1) Put shores in position below the wing front spar and rear spar.
For detailed instructions, refer to SRM : SRM 515100-P.Block.001

(2) Make sure that the wing touches the shores"

You'll have to look at the SRM reference yourself, as it's way too big to put here!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:14 am

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 37):
You'll have to look at the SRM reference yourself, as it's way too big to put here!

What does the AMM say about Jacking.And about the Tying of the Jack.

Tell me the Reference page no.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
A319XFW
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:41 am

There is no reference to tying the jack that I could find.
The one used on the FAL is a production method, so not in the AMM, sorry.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Lifting Lugs On A320 Wings

Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:07 am

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 39):

Ok.Post a link if you find one.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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