supermatelot
Posts: 8
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A Few Questions Please..

Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:50 am

Im currently helping somebody research a university project on UK consumer law and one topic is related to smokers and long haul flights.

I have researched around and would like clarification or correction on a few opinions I have formed please.

Have any airlines gained permission to run aircon at a less efficient rate only by imposing a total smoking ban?

The air quality on smoking permitted flights was higher than non-smoking due to the aircon levels.

Could somebody give a few comparisons on the air recirc frequency in both scenarios please?

Passive smoking is a myth because the air circulation is vertical not horizontal therefore would only affect those sat in the same row??

There is a higher possibility of contracting airborne viruses on none smoking flights due to the recirc percentages??

Airlines ban smoking in order to save on maintenance costs and fuel efficiency and are also under pressure from government health watchdogs who oppose smoking??

Smoking and not being able to smoke is a huge factor in recent consequences of 'air rage'.

Thankyou in advance.
 
corey07850
Posts: 2335
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:33 am

RE: A Few Questions Please..

Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:05 am

Smoking has nothing to do with an airline's decision, it's a government regulation... It has nothing to do with health and everything to do with safety (think: fire in enclosed places)
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: A Few Questions Please..

Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:49 am

I think that some of your opinions are just as wrong as it is possible to be.

Quoting Supermatelot (Thread starter):
Have any airlines gained permission to run aircon at a less efficient rate only by imposing a total smoking ban?

"Gained" permission? The knobs are in my cockpit. Whose permission do I need? The a/c controls have not changed since the plane was built.

Quoting Supermatelot (Thread starter):
The air quality on smoking permitted flights was higher than non-smoking due to the aircon levels.

Absolutely the opposite of my experience (other than recirc having nothing to do with it)

Quoting Supermatelot (Thread starter):
Passive smoking is a myth because the air circulation is vertical not horizontal therefore would only affect those sat in the same row??

I could smell the cigarette smoke in the cockpit. I'd come home from a trip with my clothes smelling of cigarette smoke.

Quoting Supermatelot (Thread starter):
Airlines ban smoking in order to save on maintenance costs

Sure did that. The tars in the smoke clogged the sense lines in temperature and pressurization controllers. I've seen brown streaks from the outflow valve clear to the tail of the airplane on a DC-10. Cigarette smoke was very damaging to airplanes.

Quoting Supermatelot (Thread starter):
Smoking and not being able to smoke is a huge factor in recent consequences of 'air rage'.

If that is true then clearly we need to test passengers for this dangerous drug and deny boarding to all nicotine users. If they have no more self-discipline that that I don't want them on my airplane.


By the way, scientific research consists of finding out what the facts are and coming to conclusions based on those facts. It sounds like you are looking for quotes from us to support the conclusions you reached before beginning research.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
supermatelot
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 3:28 am

RE: A Few Questions Please..

Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:54 am

Here is one example slamclick..

Surprisingly, alcohol is not the main cause of air rage, with drunkenness only accounting for 25% of all incidents.
Instead anxiety through delays, cramped conditions and restrictions such as banned smoking are the leading causes. http://www.flighthealth.org/air-rage.htm

Im not seeking argument,just informed clarification.No need for the hostility.
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: A Few Questions Please..

Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:13 am

Quoting Supermatelot (Reply 3):
No need for the hostility.

There was no hostility.

You told me that if we don't let people smoke on airplanes they might go beserk and hurt someone. As a person responsible for the safety of passengers I seek to avoid such a thing.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: A Few Questions Please..

Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:08 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 2):
I've seen brown streaks from the outflow valve clear to the tail of the airplane on a DC-10.

But it was great for finding pressurization leaks...
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
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HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: A Few Questions Please..

Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:35 pm

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 5):
But it was great for finding pressurization leaks...

That was the Benefits of Smoking in the cabin to Mx.  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
supermatelot
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 3:28 am

RE: A Few Questions Please..

Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:48 am

Thankyou for the replies anyway folks!

One more-possibly bizarre question if I may?

Could somebody please explain the physics behind the fact that if an aircraft laden with birds that was above mtow could still not take off ieven if all the birds 'flew' at the time of rotation???

Thankyou.
 
Matt72033
Posts: 1589
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 10:03 pm

RE: A Few Questions Please..

Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:57 am

i'm not sure where this mis conception that airlines dont operate the air conditioning to be more economical and such has come from!

i had someone telling me the other day that most operators of the 744 only run 2 of the 3 packs to save money!

utter bs, considering when you do lose one pack or switch it off for whatever reason, the other two automatically go into high flow mode!
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: A Few Questions Please..

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:41 pm

Quoting Supermatelot (Reply 7):

Could somebody please explain the physics behind the fact that if an aircraft laden with birds that was above mtow could still not take off ieven if all the birds 'flew' at the time of rotation???

I may have this wrong but the birds are just transferring their weight from the sticks they were presumably perched on to the air they are flying in. Said air is still carried by the plane, thus plane carries the birds even if they fly in the inside space.

The air in a 744 weighs over a ton and the aircraft has to lift that too.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Tod
Posts: 1709
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:51 am

RE: A Few Questions Please..

Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:24 am

Quoting Supermatelot (Thread starter):
Have any airlines gained permission to run aircon at a less efficient rate only by imposing a total smoking ban?

No.

Per FAA regulation 14CFR25.831:

"the ventilation system must be designed to provide each occupant with an airflow containing at least 0.55 pounds of fresh air per minute"

That's about 7.8 CFM per pax.

Tod
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: A Few Questions Please..

Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:20 am

Quoting Supermatelot (Thread starter):
Smoking and not being able to smoke is a huge factor in recent consequences of 'air rage'.

The first paragraph of your link seems to otherwise:

"In reality, incidences of air rage are no more common than 20yrs ago, only now there is a heightened awareness within the industry to report such cases."

Smoking was banned on airlines les than 20 years ago.

If smoking restrictions cause air-rage, then that's the sole responsibility of the person who made that choice ... has nothing to do with the fact smoking is restricted. Either don't smoke, or don't fly, if that's how you are.


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!

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