Lumberton
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Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:40 am

(Did a search but couldn't find anything that addressed this on Tech/Ops. Maybe the wrong forum?).

I'm referring to real "game changers", like hydrogen fuel, flying wings, etc. I'm no engineer but there are many on this forum. All aerospace companies have teams that deal with future technologies (skunk works) and how to practically apply to the marketplace. What do you think would really set this industry on its head? For sure, a substitute for petroleum distallate fuel. New designs? Composites also for sure. Any other ideas?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
777wt
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:05 pm

Check out the 787

Bleedless engines, extenstive use of composites.
 
sean1234
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:20 pm

A low earth orbit intra-planetary transport craft would be nice. Such a project would require advances in propulsion technology for common scheduled use.


The projects at Skunk Works and Phantom Works are purely military. To apply them to civil aircraft would require the blessing of the gov, or in other words their progression to obsolescence.

[Edited 2005-12-06 06:23:53]
 
jeffry747
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Indu

Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:01 pm

How about a Star Trek transport beam. If you could put on in every home the airlines AND auto industry would go bankrupt.

 silly  Sorry, I just couldn't resist.
C'mon Big B, FLY!
 
Lumberton
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:02 pm

Quoting Sean1234 (Reply 2):
The projects at Skunk Works and Phantom Works are purely military

You're right. I should have put an "e.g." in front of skunk works.  Smile
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Whiskeyflyer
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:34 pm

consider the following

SAFETY ISSUE
(1) ENHANCED VISION SYSTEM (sometimes called incorrectly night vision)Already fitted to several aircraft such as GV and being tested for others. Its going to make flying safer. It will do what TCAS and GPWS to improve safety
for some
http://www.ainonline.com/Issues/11_05/11_05_nasa_96.htm

TRANSPORT ISSUE
(2) FLIGHT 2000 Basically a way of automating flying navigation, so air taxi services etc can use small air fields, such as the Eclipse aircraft. Is sucessful air taxi will completly alter the way we fly
http://nasdocs.faa.gov/nasiHTML/f2000/1-0VER.html
http://www.eclipseaviation.com/affor...t_messages_solutions/air_taxi.html

CREW
(3) UAVs
so are the pilots days numbered? Some day all aircraft with be automated (but they also said in the 1960s we will not need manned fighter jets, such cruise missles) so we shall see
 
Matt72033
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:53 pm

Quoting Whiskeyflyer (Reply 5):
so are the pilots days numbered?

no, they'll just be flying them from a computer thousands of miles away  Wink
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:38 pm

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 6):
Quoting Whiskeyflyer (Reply 5):
so are the pilots days numbered?

no, they'll just be flying them from a computer thousands of miles away

Wonder how many Pax would want to be on board such an Aircraft  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Whiskeyflyer
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:51 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 7):
Wonder how many Pax would want to be on board such an Aircraft
regds
MEL

As many as they will legally allow them.

Remember when ETOPS 60 was such a great thing...ETOPS now is how many hours?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:03 am

Quoting Whiskeyflyer (Reply 8):
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 7):
Wonder how many Pax would want to be on board such an Aircraft
regds
MEL

As many as they will legally allow them.

No What I meant was...Rephrasing....How many Pax would want to fly on an Aircraft with no pilot on board.
Regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
stirling
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:29 am

Quoting Whiskeyflyer (Reply 5):
SAFETY ISSUE
(1) ENHANCED VISION SYSTEM (sometimes called incorrectly night vision)Already fitted to several aircraft such as GV and being tested for others. Its going to make flying safer. It will do what TCAS and GPWS to improve safety
for some
http://www.ainonline.com/Issues/11_0...6.htm

Consider this offering from today's Dallas Morning News:

Taking airplane safety to new heights

Registration may be required.

Snip:
Ten years ago this month, an American Airlines 757 crashed into a mountain near Cali, Colombia, killing 163 passengers. Only four people survived the crash.

The global airline industry moved quickly to install a new generation of ground avoidance systems on their planes to help prevent such an incident from happening again.

Over the past decade, these systems have saved nearly 40 planes from disaster, according to Honeywell Aerospace Electronics, the market leader for the systems.

The technology is now installed in 30,000 commercial planes worldwide, according to the company.

It costs about $100,000 per plane.

American Airlines Inc. helped test and design the hardware.

"This has been a very useful tool in the cockpit, and American is proud to have been involved in its development," said John Hotard, spokesman for the Fort Worth-based carrier. The system's record "speaks for itself."
Delete this User
 
A319XFW
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:26 am

CFIT used to be #1 cause of accidents, now unfortunately mainteance errors are high on the list (if not top?)

Pilotless aircraft would first be 'trialled' on cargo aircraft as there you wouldn't have to be as concerned about having to force passengers on board once they know there isn't a pilot.
However, the German DLR research agency has got a test aircraft flying autonomously (passenger a/c, albeit pilots still in it as a safety precaution) and the military has got UAV's and UCAV's flying around already, so the technology is there.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:43 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 10):
The global airline industry moved quickly to install a new generation of ground avoidance systems on their planes to help prevent such an incident from happening again.

Over the past decade, these systems have saved nearly 40 planes from disaster, according to Honeywell Aerospace Electronics, the market leader for the systems.

I don't want to detract too much from what is obviously a great safety accomplishment, but I always take this kind of statistic served up by the manufacturer with a grain of salt.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
aogdesk
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:14 pm

If someone invented a revenue model that actually worked, that would revolutionize the industry.  Smile
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:47 pm

Quoting Aogdesk (Reply 13):
If someone invented a revenue model that actually worked, that would revolutionize the industry.

LOL! It certainly would, but I would argue that endemic economic problems seem most prevalent in the US, because there are many consistently profitable airlines out there.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:17 am

Quoting Lumberton (Thread starter):
Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

The airline industry sells a product - to bring a person from A to B. If we should look at innovations which can really improve the product, then we should not first of all look at the airliners and their operation. It is already by far the most efficient and comfortable part of the product as seen by the customers.

How to avoid endless check-in queues.
How to avoid endless security queues.
How to avoid endless immigration control queues.
How to be fairly certain that baggage is not lost/misdirected (1.1% of all European baggage didn't make it last year, 2.2% of all KLM baggage).

The only thing which generally works pretty well on the ground is the taxis bringing us to and from the airports. And in the air the regularity is amazingly high when considering the extremely complex machinery involved and also the weather to fight, especially during this time of the year at places like here in Scandinavia.

One thing which has improved a lot on the ground is the airline web sites on which we buy your e-tickets. They used to be really terrible and confusing (and slow), but most are now pretty good. The LCCs showed the way, probably because their business models are so much simpler.

If only some of the "magic" in the air could be copied on the ground...
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
tbar220
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:54 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 7):

Wonder how many Pax would want to be on board such an Aircraft

How many insurance companies would want to insure an aircraft without a pilot and nearly 100 passengers on it...
NO URLS in signature
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:17 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 15):

The airline industry sells a product - to bring a person from A to B. If we should look at innovations which can really improve the product, then we should not first of all look at the airliners and their operation. It is already by far the most efficient and comfortable part of the product as seen by the customers.

How to avoid endless check-in queues.
How to avoid endless security queues.
How to avoid endless immigration control queues.
How to be fairly certain that baggage is not lost/misdirected (1.1% of all European baggage didn't make it last year, 2.2% of all KLM baggage).

Prebennorholm raises the most important point about products. In 99.99% of cases, a customer buys the product for it's intended effect, not for itself. To paraphrase the CEO of my company: "The customer wants the hole. The drill is only interesting in so far as it produces the hole." In this case, as Preben (if I may thus abbreviate) says, the customer doesn't care about the plane, he cares about getting there fast, comfortably and with the least amount of being shot by air marshals.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
ANother
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:44 am

My 2 cents. Get rid of ownership & control and route rights. Provided they can pass a safety audit any airline can fly from anywhere to anywhere.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:00 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 18):
My 2 cents. Get rid of ownership & control and route rights. Provided they can pass a safety audit any airline can fly from anywhere to anywhere.

Indeed. Good for the customer. Also slots get auctioned out to the highest bidder.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Whiskeyflyer
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:58 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 19):
Quoting ANother (Reply 18):
My 2 cents. Get rid of ownership & control and route rights. Provided they can pass a safety audit any airline can fly from anywhere to anywhere.

Indeed. Good for the customer. Also slots get auctioned out to the highest bidder.

and thats why the EU and USA are having their "open skies" talks. But amazingingly still in the land of big business (ie USA) foreign ownership of airlines is a big political issue

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4451440.stm
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:39 pm

Quoting Whiskeyflyer (Reply 20):
and thats why the EU and USA are having their "open skies" talks. But amazingingly still in the land of big business (ie USA) foreign ownership of airlines is a big political issue

Probably has to do with all that air reserve stuff. Strategic considerations always trump the free market, even in the US  Wink
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
bsergonomics
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:09 am

My 2 Euro cents-worth:

1. Pilotless civil passenger aircraft (30 year timeframe)

2. True free flight - no more airways (5-15 year timeframe)

3. Trans-oceanic reduced separation (5 year timeframe)

4. The option of behaving like an intelligent, well behaved passenger or being dumped out of the aircraft (without a parachute) at FL380... (not for the foreseeable future, at least in the countries with the highest percentage of the aforementioned type of passenger).

I regret to say that, whilst we continue with the policy of transporting Self Loading Cargo (SLG - passengers to you and I), we will continue with the model that currently prevails. Those who point towards scramjets etc. as the way to transport us from London to Sydney in less than 3 hours are forgetting the fact that, when it arrives, 50% pf the passengers will be dead, thanks to the acceleration factors. IMHO, the biggest benefits that will come from development (within the short term) will come from advances in air traffic management, rather than the ability to physically transport a breathing body from A to B more quickly.

Enjoy!
The definition of a 'Pessimist': an Optimist with experience...
 
Airgypsy
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:21 pm

NOW THAT was a great idea. Self loading cargo. I suppose we've all experienced the remote gate transport that carries the plane load of people from the terminal to a "remote" gate. Now just stretch a little further to a 747 with a full width loading system where the passengers are preloaded into a "cabin system" and it is shoved into the aircraft like a magazine after the previous load was removed.
Cabins are cleaned and serviced between loads and airplane passengers aren't the loading delay. A purpose built aircraft with a PAX/Bags load system would do wonders for turnaround. It could even serve as part of the aircraft structure. Anyone remember the C-82 Packet?
Airgypsy
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:29 pm

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 6):
no, they'll just be flying them from a computer thousands of miles away

I can see it now; a ground control located in India or China with one pilot flying 10 to 20 planes at once. All he does is monitor takeoffs and landings and put it on auto pilot for the cruise.  Yeah sure
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
whitehatter
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:34 pm

Realistically?

A turbofan engine of the thrust output which pitches it in the same bracket as the CFM56 or V2500 (hence in the market leading sector) which runs exclusively on biofuel. Nothing major really, except it would be a futureproof engine for when oil starts getting expensive and difficult to source.

If fuel supply and performance could be sorted out at the right cost to the airlines, Ryanair and Southwest would buy it in a heartbeat. No more hedging crap, no more dependence on dwindling oil stocks, continued ability to perform their business of flying.

Not that hard to accomplish, and biofuel is making inroads into gasoline powered road vehicles already. Developing it for aviation isn't a huge stretch of ability for the engine manufacturers.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:00 pm

An Alternate,cheap Fuel to replace ATF eventually is the call of the day I guess.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:36 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 25):
A turbofan engine of the thrust output which pitches it in the same bracket as the CFM56 or V2500 (hence in the market leading sector) which runs exclusively on biofuel. Nothing major really, except it would be a futureproof engine for when oil starts getting expensive and difficult to source.

If fuel supply and performance could be sorted out at the right cost to the airlines, Ryanair and Southwest would buy it in a heartbeat. No more hedging crap, no more dependence on dwindling oil stocks, continued ability to perform their business of flying.

Not that hard to accomplish, and biofuel is making inroads into gasoline powered road vehicles already. Developing it for aviation isn't a huge stretch of ability for the engine manufacturers.

The problem with biofuels is that today they are in most cases more expensive than fossil fuels. But I have high hopes for the future!
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:52 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 27):
The problem with biofuels is that today they are in most cases more expensive than fossil fuels

Prices will come down with more demand. The manufacturing process would become larger as more things are built to run on biodiesel. The cost per unit would therefore come down.

IIRC, gasoline was something like 75 cents a gallon in the 1890's. It was less than 20 cents a gallon in the 1920's. More things needed gasoline, so refining increased and the price dropped.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
Dougloid
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:26 pm

Diesel aircraft engines for light aircraft.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
whitehatter
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Indu

Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:54 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 27):
The problem with biofuels is that today they are in most cases more expensive than fossil fuels. But I have high hopes for the future!

if there isn't any fossil fuel to buy that becomes a moot point. However as AsstChiefMark says, it's all about scale. The global sugar and corn industries alone make billions of tons of suitable biomass available every year.

The biggest biofuel plant in Europe is about to be built in Britain, and not by an oil company as such. That will produce bioethanol for 85 gasoline.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 29):
Diesel aircraft engines for light aircraft.

The Luftwaffe flew early diesels on (IIRC) Junkers aircraft. The problem with flying an oil burner is slow speed and waxing fuel.

Even modern turbodiesels would have fuel waxing issues. However modern fuels and fuel management could overcome it. The other problem is that diesel is heavier by volume than kerosene.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
jafa39
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:16 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 30):
The Luftwaffe flew early diesels on (IIRC) Junkers aircraft.

True, The Junkers 88, made very distinctive sound and was slightly harder to shoot down as diesel isn't really into exploding.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 30):
Even modern turbodiesels would have fuel waxing issues.

Plenty of additives available, or just use engine heat to keep things warm or heated tanks.
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:19 am

I think the next innovations, which are hopefully not to far away, is the elimination of (most) ground based nav equipment (VORs,NDBs, etc) and highly accurate GPS navigation that would allow a precision approach into any airport worldwide.

That, and free-flight navigation (direct-to anywhere)

 twocents 
 
turnit56N
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:44 pm

LAAS - GPS enhancement system predicted to be so accurate, it'll allow Cat IIIc precision on a GPS approach, pretty much eliminating the need for all other navaids. An airport with LAAS capability would theoretically be able to publish Cat IIIc mins for every runway as easily as it would for one runway. Greater safety, greater flexibility, and potentially much cheaper to install and maintain than a variety of navaids and ILS equipment.

Aforementioned vision enhancement/IR - To allow safer approaches and taxiing in low visibility conditions.

Blended Wing and Body Designs - If they can figure out how to evacuate them in time and how to fit them into the conventional airport they could potentially carry insane numbers of passengers. A concept by Aerospatiale was meant to carry over 1,000 pax.

Hydrogen Fuel Cells - Obvious reasons.

I do think the biggest advances are going to be in the opening of the commercial space travel market. It's technically aviation, but what a whole new can of worms.....
Aviation is not so much a profession as it is a disease.
 
777
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:04 pm

Here below my opinion about one of the most revolutionary ideas that can really change the Aviation sector in the next years, both for military and civil applications...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Joe Statz



View Large View Medium
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Photo © George Canciani



View Large View Medium
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Photo © Ralph Duenas - Airplanespotters



View Large View Medium
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Photo © Justin Stephenson



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Joe Statz



It's hard to see something more innovative than that!
 
Pyrex
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:27 pm

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 25):
A turbofan engine of the thrust output which pitches it in the same bracket as the CFM56 or V2500 (hence in the market leading sector) which runs exclusively on biofuel.

Theoretically turbine engines can burn anything so that isn't too hard to accomplish. The problem is producing biofuel in enough quantities.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 30):
The other problem is that diesel is heavier by volume than kerosene.

Existing diesel aero engines like the ones produced by Thielert and SMA, derived from modern diesel auto engines, can burn Jet-A fuel (kerosene), which is cheaper than diesel as it is less taxed.

Keeping on the subject of engines, a reliable geared turbofan (GTF) would be a real game changer. Lets hope we can see it in the next generation of A320/737 family aircraft.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
DrDeke
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:09 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 16):
How many insurance companies would want to insure an aircraft without a pilot and nearly 100 passengers on it...

Ehh, insurance companies are much more logical and calculating than the average "self-loading cargo" unit. Tests will determine the statistical probability of crashes and other "loss" events in such airplanes, and insurance companies will set the premium rates in accordance with said data.

Quoting Turnit56N (Reply 33):
Hydrogen Fuel Cells - Obvious reasons.

Fuel cells produce electricity, right? Does anyone make an electric motor with the torque and power characteristics of a modern turbofan engine? If not, could we build such a motor with current technology? I'm not saying we can't - I honestly don't know and am curious.

-DrDeke
If you don't want it known, don't say it on a phone.
 
julesmusician
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:23 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 15):
How to avoid endless check-in queues
How to avoid endless security queues.
How to avoid endless immigration control queues.
How to be fairly certain that baggage is not lost/misdirected (1.1% of all European baggage didn't make it last year, 2.2% of all KLM baggage).

The "Check in Cafe" with coffee on tap and customers take a number and sit down and get called. All desks serve all airlines.

Immigration should be now integrated into airline systems. The day will come when the passengers will selfscan passports in on board the aircraft and use pin numbers to expedite their exit at airports. All the data will be uploaded to immigration prior to arrival and any queries will be sent direct to the passengers screen in front of them while in flight....one day....
African Civil Aviation Commission president "You don't want to fly out as a passenger and come back as cargo."
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:35 am

Quoting DrDeke (Reply 36):
Fuel cells produce electricity, right? Does anyone make an electric motor with the torque and power characteristics of a modern turbofan engine?

I can show you plenty of such engines, all for model airplanes.  Wink
http://www.kyosho.co.jp/web/products...ies/accessories/motor/motor-e.html

Quoting Julesmusician (Reply 37):
Immigration should be now integrated into airline systems. The day will come when the passengers will selfscan passports in on board the aircraft and use pin numbers to expedite their exit at airports. All the data will be uploaded to immigration prior to arrival and any queries will be sent direct to the passengers screen in front of them while in flight....one day....

What? No "Welcome Home" from the donut-eating, armed Immigrations Officer?!? Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Lumberton
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:47 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 35):
a reliable geared turbofan (GTF) would be a real game changer. Lets hope we can see it in the next generation of A320/737 family aircraft.

Didn't Pratt announce that they were going to go with a geared turbofan proposal for the NG narrow bodies? I believe that they will be doing this as part of the IAE consortium.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:54 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 39):
Didn't Pratt announce that they were going to go with a geared turbofan proposal for the NG narrow bodies? I believe that they will be doing this as part of the IAE consortium.

Wasn't this the SuperFan for the 340 that never materialized?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:08 am

Quoting 777 (Reply 34):
It's hard to see something more innovative than that!

sure, now the trick is to keep it from crashing all the time.

In-flight testing of the controversial V-22 Osprey "hybrid" aircraft, which was halted four years ago following three fatal crashes

http://www.lahontanvalleynews.com/article/20050122/News/101220002

[Edited 2005-12-13 03:11:39]
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
777
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:14 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 41):
sure, now the trick is to keep it from crashing all the time.

For sure, as many others challenging projects... unfortunately this is the price that you often have to pay when you introduce a revolutionary innovation... but I focus my attention and curiosity on the incredible amount of new services that you can have with this kind of aircraft in the near future (I hope)

...Imagine a regional flight that, instead of landing in a classical airport 30 miles far away for the town, lands in the center of the town as a copter...
 
Whiskeyflyer
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:23 pm

Quoting 777 (Reply 42):
Imagine a regional flight that, instead of landing in a classical airport 30 miles far away for the town, lands in the center of the town as a copter...

can you imagine the protests when his happens. NIMBY syndrome. Trying to get planning permission for a city heliport is hell in most parts of the world (San Paulo seems to be the exception)
NIMBY = Not In My Back Yard
 
turnit56N
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:38 pm

An idea floated at an aviation management seminar a few years ago included the use of individual containers for pax groups. A family could customize their container with what they wanted before the flight. They could set up the seating how they wanted, pick options for entertainment, and load it with their own food. They would then be loaded into their individual container off-site close to home and be transported to the aircraft where the containers would be loaded into an aircraft. The advantages would be less hassle at the airport itself. Theoretically, there would be no reason to step outside the container at all, eliminating the need for a passenger terminal altogether.

I personally think it has more disadvantages than advantages. There wouldn't be windows, and it would seriously increase the amount of time "onboard" if you were in your travel container from the time you left home until you arrived at your destination. Sounds like claustraphobia waiting to happen. The total number of passengers would be reduced to handle the extra weight and size of the containers. The biggest drawback discussed was that airports make much of their money off concessions and any idea that would reduce revenue at airport concessions isn't a good idea for the airport (after all, it was an airport manager's seminar). Still, it's a radical idea.
Aviation is not so much a profession as it is a disease.
 
jafa39
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:31 pm

Quoting Turnit56N (Reply 44):
individual containers for pax

You could modify this and adopt the Japanese "Capsule Hotel" concept, maybe even sedate the pax for long haul!
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:31 pm

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 45):
maybe even sedate the pax for long haul

What happens in an Emergency enroute  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:16 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 46):
Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 45):
maybe even sedate the pax for long haul

What happens in an Emergency enroute

Eject the capsules with explosives Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
NWDC10
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:43 am

"ScramJets" will be the future for power plants and not "FanJets" any more. Robert NWDC10
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Innovations That Could Alter The Aviation Industry

Mon Dec 26, 2005 3:31 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 47):
Eject the capsules with explosives

Which Direction  biggrin 
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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