TheSonntag
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What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:29 am

This is a question for both pilots and cabin crew: When you are doing a long haul flight and get a rest period, what are you doing during this time? Are you sleeping? Going to a seat where you can look out of the window? Talk to passengers? (As it certainly is a question which can be answered in a different way, what is the company telling crews to do during their rest period or what are legal requirements)

If you rest in a crew resting area, is this a good place to rest?

And how long is a rest period if you fly, let's say, from KIX to FRA (11 1/2 hours of flight)?

Michael
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:00 am

777 crew rest area


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Photo © Peter Smit

It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:07 pm

Check out the Belts in the pic  biggrin 
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
calpilot
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:23 pm

If its a overnight flight (Normal sleeping time, deep South America) I sleep. If its during daylight hours, and I've just started my duty period within a few hours of going on break, I watch movies, read, or etc. (Usual North Atlantic trip paring)
 
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:36 pm


sure looks comfortable.Whats the requirement,do seat belt have to be constantly worn while asleep.What about Emergency access.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
qxeguy
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Perio

Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:45 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Thread starter):
what are you doing during this time?

...Flight Attendants
I fly boxes. Boxes don't bitch. Boxes don't barf. Boxes don't get drunk and do a number 2 on the beverage cart.
 
Whiskeyflyer
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:25 pm

complaining and moaning.... or is that just our crew
 
VSGirl
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:49 pm

It really depends on if it’s a day or night service. It can also depends on where flights are going, for example crew are normally very happy when off to Miami (especially when it’s cold back home). If we are off to Tokyo the crew can sometimes be a little withdrawn.

On a day flight we normally have a chat, gossip and plan what we are going to do once we land. We it’s a day flight homebound then we normally sit and chat about what we have done while away and there is normally at least one person with a digital camera so we sit and look at photos of the crazy nights away. If you’re on an early break or late break (towards the start or end of a flight) you normally either have a snack or watch a movie.

On a night flight it’s normally sleep, or something as close as you can manage. The aim is to sleep as much as you can, so when you land (back in the United Kingdom) you don’t waste the whole day! Sometimes if your on a break with a friend you will have a laugh about what you did the night before (this normally happens if we are returning from Miami or NY/NJ).

Thinking about it, its only new crew that talk about the PAX on the flight, I guess once you get into the rest area you try and forget the passengers!

In general the mood in crew rest area/s is normally ‘up tempo’

Kimberly.
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:25 pm

Never turn down a chance to sleep!! Talk about class.


 
AirWillie6475
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:36 pm

Which planes have a crew rest area, I'm guesiing some planes don't have them. Where does crew rest then?
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:21 am

You are looking at a plane with no crew rest area. That's why he is on the floor sleeping on a futon cushion. The crew rest areas are extended electrically and have two bunks. Not too bad unless you're claustrophobic! LOL
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:52 am

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 11):
You are looking at a plane with no crew rest area. That's why he is on the floor sleeping on a futon cu

Some carry a sleeping bag on board.Common on Freightes not having a crew rest area.
 Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:18 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 12):
Some carry a sleeping bag on board.Common on Freightes not having a crew rest area.

Yes some folks do but the futon cushion and thin airline blankets and pillows are standard issue on the planes that have 3 pilots. All flights that have double crew have the CRA.
 
phxplanes
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:34 am

Is the rest area really above the passengers like shown in the picture. I didn't know there was that much room above. They should make beds all the way through the cabin and charge people extra for a bed.
 
VSGirl
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:39 am

Most long haul aircraft have crew rest areas of some type.

Aircraft that have crew rest areas fitted with beds and/or chairs:

Airbus A340
Airbus A380
Boeing 747 series 400
&
Boeing 777


For example, Virgin Atlantics Airbus A340’s, our aircraft have a special container that secured in place like a normal aircraft baggage/cargo container. The rest container can be accessed through a small hatch in the cabin floor towards the middle of the aircraft (normally near a galley, you pass through a door then down a small ladder). When passing into the rest area (container) there is no indication that it is not a permanent fixture.

The plus points with this container system is when the aircraft is on a short flight (six hours or less normally) the crew rest container can be simply be off loaded saving money by not having to carry as much weight which is not needed.

The negative point is the crew container takes up revenue earning cargo space! If the crew container was not onboard, there would be space for two extra containers of cargo, which can bring in extra revenue on a long and especially ultra long haul flight.

I have been on many long flights which are planned at 12 hours or more, but because of high cargo load figures the crew containers are off loaded.

With the Boeing designed rest area system that is not a problem. On our Boeing 747’s the rest area for cabin crew is towards the rear of the cabin. You enter a door towards the rear lavatories climb some very steep steps which lead you directly to the rest area (which is above the passenger cabin and below the tail).

On the Boeing 747-400 the cabin crew rest areas have a number of bunk beds and depending on the design a few seats as well.

On the Boeing 777 the cabin crew rest area as I understand is smaller then on the Boeing 747 series 400. The area normally has three beds and two seats and is situated towards the rear of the cabin, above where the passengers sit.

As you can see above on HAWK21M message the pilots on the Boeing 777 enjoy a rest area which is positioned just behind exits 1L&1R above the area which is normally assigned for First class or Business on certain airlines (CO, KLM etc).

Pilots on the Boeing 747 series 400 have a rest area which is to the left of the flight deck. When you enter the Boeing 747’s flight deck, there is a door on the left.

On the Airbus A340 500 & 600 have an area at the rear of the flight deck, which has a bunk bed inside This area is behind the flight deck and in front of the cabin service area by doors 1L&1R. Unlike the Boeing 777 it is not in the ‘ceiling’ of the cabin.

The good points of having the pilot’s rest area doors in the flight deck means they never need to leave the flight deck, which increases in flight security.

Depending on the airline specifications and requirements an IFE terminal can be added to the FD rest area. Certain airlines also specify up to two additional screens which can display navigation information along with vital or urgent information about the aircraft status. Radio transmissions can also be monitored from this area. This system is handy when on an ultra long haul flight.

Cabin Crew are also treated to some goodies. They normally have an IFE terminal per bed or seat. Most rest areas (for the airline I work for) also have mood lighting, as featured in our Upper class cabin. The beds in these areas are really comfortable (yes, better then in any First or Business class). Duvets are normally issued along with PJ’s.

As far as I know the Airbus A330 series 200 can take advantage of the crew container system, but I am not aware of any airlines that use it with this type.

Boeing Airbus A300, A310, Boeing 757 & Boeing 767 do not have crew rest areas. Airlines normally pre-assign seats for the crew to rest in on long haul sectors. On certain airlines they sometimes have a curtain system when stops passengers from looking in, but its hardly private and I know our policy is we have to remain in full in-flight uniform keeping talking or laughing to a minimum.

Even though aircraft such as the DC10 and L1011’s had galleys in the cargo hold area they did not have any crew rest areas like the Airbus or Boeing now have.

The introduction of the Boeing 747 series 400 meant for many airlines they had to create space for crew to rest in. The 400 series could fly for over 14 hours and pre assigning passenger seats for cabin crew to use would be costly on such services.

As time continues both Airbus and Boeing will continue to design areas for crew to rest which does not take up passenger revenue earning space.

For now I think both Airbus and Boeing have done a great job at creating space where there is very little!

Fly Smart

Kimberly
 
TheSonntag
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:15 am

@ Kimberly Thank you very much for your post!

When I flew with Condor back from HAV last year I was really surprised that the crew had to rest inside the cabin (they only had a curtain behind which they could hide). It looked pretty uncomfortable. Certainly issues like crew rest areas became more important during the last years, which is a good thing. Like I don't want to have a doctor that has been working for 30hours already (unfortunately very common in Germany), I do not want to have tired flight attendants in an evacuation after a 16hours flight! So it is good that there is paid more attention to this issue!

Michael
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:14 pm

Quoting VSGirl (Reply 15):

Very well posted  bigthumbsup 

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 16):
So it is good that there is paid more attention to this issue!

Hopefully Mx gets some Ground duty time limitations soon too  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
ArcticTern
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:52 am

Hi,

This was really interestin to know what the crew do during a long haul flight.

Just one quick question, sleepin on an aircraft will it add to flight hours for a Pilot on a co-pilot?

Flight time - "The time from which an aircraft leave the loading point for the purpose of a take from its own power till the time it comes to rest at the unloading point".

Thanks,
Sushant
I wanted to fly even before I knew how to pronounce the word 'Pilot'
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:53 am

Quoting ArcticTern (Reply 18):
Just one quick question, sleepin on an aircraft will it add to flight hours for a Pilot on a co-pilot

FDTL should exclude Crew rest time,as the concerned Pilot is non Operating crew.
Maybe a Pilot could answer better.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
jamesbuk
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:05 am

[quote=HAWK21M,reply=19]FDTL should exclude Crew rest time,as the concerned Pilot is non Operating crew.[/quote

i know unlikely but how about if they slept in the flight deck would this count as hours or is it the fact they basically aint at the controls
You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
 
Matt72033
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:25 am

Quoting VSGirl (Reply 8):

are you actually not aloud to use crew rest areas on flights out of LGW?

i had to remove all the curtains out of LGW based VS 744's because apparently the flights operated out of LGW are not long enough to warrent crew rest?

always find used blankets up there though! hehe  Wink
 
FlyingColours
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:35 am

Well the 737-400 obviously doesn't have a crew rest area (although some days it really should) so I just used to spend my time hiding in the Flightdeck chatting to the flight crew until the purser would come and drag me out by my ears  Wink

Ok joking aside, I worked on the 737-400 & 800 and some days we could spend much longer than planned on the aircraft (with pax) and still on the ground downroute. We only had 'breaks' and not an official rest period so I'd usually go and chat with the flight crew. On some flights though like TFS and DLM where we would be flying through the night all we could do was go and sit in a galley (at the forward area of the 737-400 there was a curtain for the galley but there were no jumpseats in there - so we'd have to take an Atlas box out and sit on that), at least the rear galley had a full curtain. We could try and sleep (although we were not supposed to, I can never sleep on an aircraft anyway so never bothered) but I could always enjoy just lying down on my jumpseat with my head resting awkwardly against the slide bustle. Or then again sitting in my jumpseat, sliding down and putting my legs in an empty Galley Stowage shelf, much comfier than a passenger seat IMHO  Smile

Depending on what the routing was I'd go and chat to some of the passengers, without fail always some groups of young women on the TFS route - god I miss that routing  Sad

Phil
FlyingColours
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HAWK21M
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:16 pm

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 20):
i know unlikely but how about if they slept in the flight deck would this count as hours or is it the fact they basically aint at the controls

Recently a rule ammendment out here states that Pilot present in observers seat is considered part of Flying crew so FDTL would apply.The problem on B737 freighters is that there is no rest area.So the observer has to travel commercial to base stn if FDTL applies but cannot seat on the freighter going to the same destination 4 hrs earlier minus the Airport wait.  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:44 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 19):
FDTL should exclude Crew rest time,as the concerned Pilot is non Operating crew.
Maybe a Pilot could answer better.
regds

Without going into all the duty time limitations in the FARs having a 3rd or 4th crewmember means you can fly a long time safely and have a crew break somewhere along the way. You are still "on duty" for sake of the scheduled complete flight. We have a 3rd pilot on all flights with a SCHEDULED BLOCK of 8hr or more and a 4th crewmember on all SCHED. BLK. flts over 12hrs.
 
musapapaya
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:56 am

Thanks very much for your post, VS girl! You definitely gave us lots of understanding about this issue.
Regards
William
Lufthansa Group of Airlines
 
boeingfanyyz
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:53 pm

Well, I think I have an idea what some resting crew members might be doing, but I wont get into that just yet...  laughing 
Cheers,
Boeingfanyyz  airplane 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:24 pm

Quoting Boeingfanyyz (Reply 26):
Well, I think I have an idea what some resting crew members might be doing, but I wont get into that just yet...

Very Unlikely on Aircraft.Although Rest at a Hotel could be different  biggrin 

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 24):
You are still "on duty" for sake of the scheduled complete flight. We have a 3rd pilot on all flights with a SCHEDULED BLOCK of 8hr or more and a 4th crewmember on all SCHED. BLK. flts over 12hrs.

What happens on long haul flights.How is the Flying Distributed.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: What Is The Crew Doing During Their Rest Period?

Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:12 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 27):
What happens on long haul flights.How is the Flying Distributed.
regds

Most of the crews just divide the flight time by 3 minus TOC and TOD and you choose 1st, 2nd,or 3rd. 4 man crew you can divide it into 4 3hr rest periods or 2 6hr periods.

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