TupolevTu154
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What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:09 pm

Hey

I saw this picture recently and noticed something odd about the wingtip.


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As you can see there is a large... pod of somesort on the trailing edge.

I've had a brief look at other photos and can't see anything farmiliar, all other 752 wingtips just look normal


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Anybody got any ideas or knowledge as to what it might be? Is it something to do with the recent ETOPS proving?

Thanks

Tom  Cool
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:20 pm

Chemtrail dispenser!!!!!
.
.
.
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bri2k1
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:22 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
Chemtrail dispenser!!!!!

ROFL! I was going to say RATO, but I bet you're right!
Position and hold
 
cancidas
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:24 pm

fuel dump valve .
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
jamesbuk
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:47 pm

Quoting Cancidas (Reply 3):
fuel dump valve .

arent they further inward.. i would guess its some sort of static discharger
You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
 
broke
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:49 pm

It looks like a logo light fairing to me.
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting Cancidas (Reply 3):
fuel dump valve

B757 do not have fuel dump.

Quoting Broke (Reply 5):
It looks like a logo light fairing to me

The B757 logo lights are on the horizontal stabiliser.

I have no idea what this is.
 
dan2002
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:19 am

Its some kind of light, look at the end of it.


Dan
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upstatedave
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:23 am

That "thing" is on most early build 75s. The later builds like the UPS depicted have a light assembly similar to the 73. Please not that the thing is exagerated in the HP pic as a wide angle lense was used.

[Edited 2006-01-03 16:24:21]
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oly720man
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:47 am

Having had a look through the db it seems to be a feature of HP machines, even being fitted to aircraft that didn't have it originally.


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which was originally delivered as


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Qantas744er
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:00 am

Hey, HP just used to use their aircraft to Hawaii on ETOPS routes, so this antenna was added,because of extra requirements when flying ETOPS.

Cheers Leo
Happiness is V1 in Lagos
 
AmericanAirFan
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:02 am

Quoting UpstateDave (Reply 8):
Please not that the thing is exaggerated in the HP pic as a wide angle lens was used.

I looked at other pictures of that N number and it seems as though the feature isn't very off in that wide angle lens than any other picture. Very interesting find I had wondered the same thing myself.
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Qantas744er
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:37 am

If you read the comment on the picture it seas how this is the first HP proving ETOPS flight, to approve for Hawaii flights. Onboard are FAA officials etc. so for 100% this is a ETOPS antenna for the 757-200.


Cheers Leo
Happiness is V1 in Lagos
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:47 am

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 12):
ETOPS antenna

I never knew there was such a thing as an ETOPS antenna, is it for the HF band?
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:37 am

Quoting UpstateDave (Reply 8):
That "thing" is on most early build 75s.

It wasn't on the BA B757's that were sold to DHL, and we were (with Eastern) the launch customer.
 
upstatedave
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:24 am

I concede i am incorrect about late model thing, but i could have sworn i had seen the same thing on a NWA plane but the db would tend to argue this with me.

But check this:

Its a US Airways 757 wingview. It has the same thing as HP:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/910722/L/

It appears to be lights on the inside of it. and this next picture clearly shows it as a logo light. As u can see it shining and the tail being illuminated w/o having any lights on the elevator.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/88963

Now look at this continental:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/967799/L/

The continental a/c is also ETOPS certified and does not have such things. Plus if u check the database, HP's 75s have always had these, even b4 etops.
"Once you fly, you will walk with your eyes skyward. For there you will go again." Leonardo da Vinci
 
EMBQA
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:57 am

It the logo light mount....
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:07 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 16):
It the logo light mount

It definitely looks like one, but why fit them when B757 have tail mounted logo lights as standard?
 
EMBQA
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 17):
It definitely looks like one, but why fit them when B757 have tail mounted logo lights as standard?

Your assuming it's standard on the tail. None of the pictures I've seen on A.net show a logo light on the horizontal... only on the wing tip.
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calpilot
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:24 am

For gosh sake its the Logo light.

EAL did not get them back in the 80's.
 
PurdueAv2003
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:38 pm

It is the rear facing position light.
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phoenixX2
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:01 pm

The pic is of HP A/C 909, those are after market HF ant. on either wing (duels) for ETOPS, unlike CO 757s (delivered as factory ETOPs).

Rgds
 
upstatedave
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:15 am

Quoting PhoenixX2 (Reply 21):
The pic is of HP A/C 909, those are after market HF ant. on either wing (duels) for ETOPS, unlike CO 757s (delivered as factory ETOPs).

Rgds

Then why does the db show it as always being a part of HP a/c well b4 the ETOPs flights?
"Once you fly, you will walk with your eyes skyward. For there you will go again." Leonardo da Vinci
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 18):
None of the pictures I've seen on A.net show a logo light on the horizontal

Well you won't see it on your picture. There are two lights on each side, they are recessed into the TOP of the horizontal stabilisor so they shine upwards onto the vertical fin. You need to look down on the tailplane to see them.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:16 am

Looks like the White Position & Navigation Tail light.
regds
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EA CO AS
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:51 am

It's a logo light.

It's an ETOPS antenna.

It's a food processor.

It's a high-speed cable modem.

It's an official Red Ryder air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing that tells time.

Can ANYONE definitively state what this actually is, with documentation to back it up?
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phxplanes
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:19 am

I have to say I dont think it has anything to due with etops because they have had them way before any talk of Hawaii came about. Also I fly HP all the time and they have two lights facing toward the fusalge that turn on and off with the landing lights. They look exactly like the picture of the us airways 757 that upstatedave posted.
Here are pictures from 94 and 97 so they have been there since the beginning its not an etops thing.

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CX Flyboy
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:45 pm

I've not heard of any antenna needed for an ETOPS flight....and I do ETOPs all the time! Surely all 757s have HF comms as standard?
 
PurdueAv2003
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:12 pm

For those that want a reference, IPC 33-43-01, Fig 01 illustrates the part. It is a rear facing position light.
Ptu = Ftu X Anet (not to be confused with a.net)
 
nonfirm
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:15 pm

Quoting PurdueAv2003 (Reply 28):

the aft section is the position light the inbd light is a logo light.
 
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Crosswind
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:35 am

As well as America West's 757s you will also see it on some US Airways' 757s, the ex-Eastern ones, however it appears that US Airways' new-build 757s received direct from Boeing do not have the fairings.

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I can categorically state that;
• It's nothing to do with ETOPS. As CXflyboy correctly assumed, HF radios are standard fit on all 757s, and are the only additional type of radios which would be mandatory for aircraft undertaking ETOPS operations.
• It was not present on these aircraft when they were constructed - the America West aircraft didn't have those wingtip fairings when they were with Republic, and the US Airways aircarft didn't have them when they were with Eastern (check th db)
• It isn't a fuel dump valve - the 757 doesn't have a fuel dump facility.

I think the position light at the end is a red-herring - all 757s have a light there, but the presence of the fairing has required the light to be located on the end of it rather than on the wingtip it's self.

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I would be surprised if it's a logo light fairing - the standard 757 logo lights are on the top of the horizontal stabiliser. It would seem a strange choice to add a fairing on the wingtips as an aftermarket conversion to add logo lights, as opposed to the standard location.

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I always thought it was an antenna for the onboard satellite telephones that America West installed in the early 1990s.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
wagz
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:50 am

I'm pretty sure this was a feature common to only the Eastern 757s, as I've never seen it anywhere else.

As mentioned already, the older US 757s hall have it, N600AU through N609AU I beleive. Those are the Ex-EA birds, the rest are US new builds from later. It just also so happens that all HP 757s are Ex-EA machines as well. I read about that fairing several years ago and its come in handy spotting 757s at PHL when you can't see the reg.

Actually re-reading some posts seem to make it clear it wasn't there when newly constructed. In any event, whatever that "thing" is, it appears only on Ex-Eastern 757s. I assume since both US and HP birds have it (and did long before the merger) it was installed late in their EA career.

Actually, its sort of ironic thinking about the history of those birds. After EA closed up shop, these aircraft were split up, and now will be flying together again under the new US.

[Edited 2006-01-06 02:59:16]
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HAWK21M
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:02 am

Quoting Nonfirm (Reply 29):
the aft section is the position light the inbd light is a logo light.

 bigthumbsup 
regds
MEL
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Crosswind
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:14 am

Quoting Wagz (Reply 31):
As mentioned already, the older US 757s hall have it, N600AU through N609AU I beleive. Those are the Ex-EA birds, the rest are US new builds from later. It just also so happens that all HP 757s are Ex-EA machines as well. I read about that fairing several years ago and its come in handy spotting 757s at PHL when you can't see the reg.

Only 4 America West 757s are ex-Eastern, 6 more are ex-Republic (via Northwest) and 3 were delivered new from Boeing - however all have the wingtip fairings.

N909AW was delivered new to America West in late-1989, and had the fairings as far back as 1991 (the oldest photo in the db)

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There are however no photos of any of Eastern's 757s having these fairings while in service with Eastern...

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If these fairings were an aftermarket logo-light installation why did America West have them on their new-build 757s received direct from Boeing? It wouldn't make sense to order new aircraft from Boeing witouth logo-lights then immediately add them yourself...

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
nonfirm
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:59 am

[img]http://www.airliners.net/open.file/834252/L/[img]

i do not know if the picture is going to work but here is another example of this type of light.we have this setup on a/c n786as.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:05 pm


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Helping Nofirm with the pic.
regds
MEL
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nonfirm
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:48 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 35):
Helping Nofirm with the pic.

Thanks for the help  Smile
 
TropicBird
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:31 am

I know for a fact it is a logo light.
 
777236ER
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:29 am

PH-DBB


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No wingtip fairing.


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Logolight!

Assuming the logo-lights on this aircraft are mounted on the horizontal stabiliser, the question is why Boeing has two designs? Or probably more accurately, why they changed the design on later models.
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nonfirm
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:24 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 38):
Assuming the logo-lights on this aircraft are mounted on the horizontal stabiliser, the question is why Boeing has two designs? Or probably more accurately, why they changed the design on later models.

from what i understand the light was moved from the wingtip to the stab due to the amount of motion on the wingtip.they were changing lamps to often.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:34 pm

Quoting Nonfirm (Reply 39):
from what i understand the light was moved from the wingtip to the stab due to the amount of motion on the wingtip.they were changing lamps to often

Thats one problem on the B737 Classics too.Either the Lamp Would need replacement or the Focus would vary.Added Wing Flex on grd would cause the Light Focus to shake.
regds
MEL
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MX757
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:29 pm

Quoting TropicBird (Reply 37):
I know for a fact it is a logo light.

Give that man a fish! It is a logo light!

Quoting PhoenixX2 (Reply 21):
The pic is of HP A/C 909, those are after market HF ant. on either wing (duels) for ETOPS, unlike CO 757s (delivered as factory ETOPs).

 rotfl   footinmouth   butthead 
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Molykote
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:49 pm

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 12):
If you read the comment on the picture it seas how this is the first HP proving ETOPS flight, to approve for Hawaii flights. Onboard are FAA officials etc. so for 100% this is a ETOPS antenna for the 757-200.


Cheers Leo

For 100% you have no idea what you are talking about.

And wasted 2 posts in the process.
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:56 am

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 12):
ETOPS antenna for the 757-200.

What on earth is an ETOPS antenna?

I must admit I don't know what it is. On all the B757 I work on (BA, El Al, Icelandair, and others I see Britannia and Continental) they are not fitted. Looking at the pictures it looks very similar to the aftermarket wing tips we fitted to the GF B737-200 in 1980 which housed logo lights. I must assume that there were some B757 built without logo lights in the stabilisor. So they have been fitted later with new wingtips for the logo lights. I can't imagine anyone fitting a HF antenna on the wing tip. HF antennas have enormose energy in them, and are not good next to fuel tanks. The pictured wing tips don,t look big enough for a HF notch antenna which is normal on modern aircraft, usually fitted in the leading edge of the fin. Old aircraft I worked on had a long line antenna running above the fuselage.
I vote for an aftermarket logo light on B757 not fitted with them on the production line.
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danman
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:11 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 43):
I can't imagine anyone fitting a HF antenna on the wing tip. HF antennas have enormose energy in them, and are not good next to fuel tanks.

Never seen a 747 then ?

99% after market Logo Lights with the included position light.
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:14 am

Yes I know the B747-200 had antennas on the wing tips, but that was a long time ago, the fuel tank was not out to the tip, and it was built in on the line with all the shielding for the cables etc. I can't imagine fitting an aftermarket HF antenna on the wing tip.
 
avioniker
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:19 am

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 45):
I can't imagine fitting an aftermarket HF antenna on the wing tip.

Go ahead and imagine it. There are a number of kits and STC's available to put the probe antennas on a variety of aircraft wings and wingtips. Boeing even has two readily available for commercial aircraft. Take a look at some of the middle eastern "antlers" aircraft.

(antlers: Man can't grow his own so he has to spend money on something to show how great he wealth is...)
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AirframeAS
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RE: What's This On The Wingtip Of An HP 752?

Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:17 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 35):

I worked on N786AS and I can confirm that is a logo light. All of HP's 752's are, indeed, logo lights and have nothing to do with ETOPS.
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