Newark777
Topic Author
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Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:20 am

Could anyone explain what exactly is going on in this picture? Is this guy actually duct taping the covering of the engine pylon? Funny picture either way.


http://www.collegehumor.com/pictures/1623039/

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
wingscrubber
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:23 am

You mean you didn't know engines are held on with duct tape? Big grin
Um, I'm guessing it's 'special' duct tape?
Resident TechOps Troll
 
474218
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:36 am

Its aluminized (aluminum) tape also known as speed tape or 600 mph tape. The sheet metal mans friend. Been used for years. This guy appears to be using it to seal up a pylon.
 
Matt72033
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:37 am

its speed tape! alumium duct tape!  Wink
 
Matt72033
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:38 am

grrrr u beat me! lol......should have radiused corners really shouldnt it?
 
A319XFW
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:42 am

It's probably speed tape.
Great stuff and extremely sticky. I remember trying to pull it off a doubler on a flap but just couldn't!
 
SlamClick
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:00 am

I remember this stuff as far back as patching bulletholes in helicopter rotor blades. The trick there was you had to start at the trailing edge, wrap it around the leading edge and back to the trailing edge, covering both entry and exit holes. Then you had to put a piece of tape the same length - and therefore the same weight at the identical station on the opposite blade for balance purposes.

This was only a valid repair for honeycomb construction blades as they should lose no mass and weight when a bullet passes through them.

This is only partly tongue-in-cheek.

I've seen it on many a leading edge on wing or tail. If you wanted to search the photos here it probably shows up in a few wing or tail closeups.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
aogdesk
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:01 am

He's probably covering a very minor delamination. Either that or the aft engine cone bolt is missing  Smile
 
2H4
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:37 am




Found some examples in the DB:


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Photo © Spencer Wilmot
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Photo © Eduard Brantjes




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Photo © Mario Nonaka






2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
Dougloid
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:47 am

When I was working at Douglas there were a few incidents of underwing doors being lost, mostly because the latches were not adjusted properly. When the aircraft was in a high angle of attack with the slats deployed, the negative pressure was enough to suck the door open and rip it off.
After one incident of this type on a Delta MD11, a door was replaced but instead of adjusting it properly the engineer recommended the use of aluminum speed tape to "seal it up" so they could go on another test flight.

Sure enough it sucked that door off as well. What happened the the engineer? Probably got a promotion and a bonus.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
EMBQA
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 8):
Found some examples in the DB:

In the first picture.. The panel he is protecting has an eroded edge and the tape will protect it from continuing to peel up and also protect it from moisture.. which for composites is a very-very bad thing

On the Airbus A340 it's covering some test wiring. VERY common on flight test aircraft.

On the USAirways 767 my guess would be covering edge composite damage to prevent moisture ingress, a very bad thing...and the tape, a VERY common short term fix.

On the Embraer 170.... Hump Seal Repair..!! The sealant used is dry to the touch, but must be protected to fly. I think the AMM allows 3 or 4 days like that until the tape must be removed.

In my 10 years I've fixed dozens and dozens of aircraft this way... fully legal and right in the FAA approved manuals..!!
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
Newark777
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:23 am

Thanks for all the info, learn something new every day!  Smile

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
DColeMAN
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:23 am

Looks abit worrying, but if the FAA approve it then it can't be that bad...



 scratchchin 

Dale
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EMBQA
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:07 am

Quoting DColeMAN (Reply 12):
Looks abit worrying, but if the FAA approve it then it can't be that bad...

Window Fay Seal repair... with a few flight under it. No worries.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
SFOMB67
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:28 pm

Although the tape in this pix is 600 MPH foil tape. Gray tape known as "duct" tape is "pit" tape when you enter aviation. I still call it pit tape at home, and everyone says "What?"
Not as easy as originally perceived
 
777
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:02 pm

Quoting DColeMAN (Reply 12):
Looks abit worrying, but if the FAA approve it then it can't be that bad...

Exactly! As far as I know it has been used since 30+ years to do quick repairs waiting for the standard ones...

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 6):
I remember this stuff as far back as patching bulletholes in helicopter rotor blades. The trick there was you had to start at the trailing edge, wrap it around the leading edge and back to the trailing edge, covering both entry and exit holes. Then you had to put a piece of tape the same length - and therefore the same weight at the identical station on the opposite blade for balance purposes.

This was only a valid repair for honeycomb construction blades as they should lose no mass and weight when a bullet passes through them.

Hi SlamClick,
I found your contribution quite impressive, but I have a question for you:
since my father has been a Sea King copter pilot for decades, sometime I was used to go with him while he was performing the pre-flight check on the copter.
Each time I was so excited… the best part was when my father asked me to climb whit him to the inspection footboard near the main rotor…
During one of those pre-check I remember that, looking at the join between the main rotor and each blade there was a sort of “pressure indicator” subject to accurate check by the pilot before each flight.
If I remember well (at that time I was only 10-12 years old), he told me that this indicator it’s so important to be checked because, in case of loss of internal pressure due to an hole (for instance), your blade will stall and you will crash… Now I’m quite sure that the blades of the Sea King are made with honeycomb construction, so I’m a bit confused…
Maybe the Sea King has a different system or maybe my memory it’s wrong… what’s your opinion?

Cheers!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:17 pm

Quoting DColeMAN (Reply 12):

Wont last long.Needs to be reapplied soon.
Very good to cover Fraying edges of panels.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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vzlet
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:19 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 2):
speed tape or 600 mph tape



Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 3):
its speed tape! alumium duct tape!

These guys can probably get by with the 100mph variety:

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Photo © Mark Carlisle

"That's so stupid! If they're so secret, why are they out where everyone can see them?" - my kid
 
Buzz
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:58 am

Hi 777, Buzz here. Funny, i was a about 10 or 12 when my Dad was flying SH-3A's ... those Sea King helos. I used to read the NATOPS manuals for fun (Maybe that's how i became plane-crazy?)
I recall that was called the "BIM Blade Indicator", it had black and white stripes if the pressure in the blade was good, all white if it had leaked. So if there was a crack in the blade, the pressure would leak down and somebody would notice before the blade came apart.

Speed Tape... 600 mph tape.... vibration dampening tape: it's useful stuff for covering joints where you've sealed a panel on a cool night - the sealant won't set up when it's less than 50 degrees.
We also have Cargo Pit Tape, which is a heavy duty, flame resistant form of duct tape. You can't tear it with your fingers, have to use a knife. It's not aluminum like Speed tape.
g'day
 
777
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:26 pm

Quoting Buzz (Reply 18):
Hi 777, Buzz here. Funny, i was a about 10 or 12 when my Dad was flying SH-3A's

... wow, what a coincidence! My father was flying the SH-3D/H version from 1973 to 1993... probably the most reliable copter in the world!!!


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Photo © Andrea Buzzacchi



before that date he was flying SH-34 and AB-204...

Quoting Buzz (Reply 18):
I recall that was called the "BIM Blade Indicator", it had black and white stripes if the pressure in the blade was good, all white if it had leaked. So if there was a crack in the blade, the pressure would leak down and somebody would notice before the blade came apart.

Yes, you should press a botton and wait the appearance of the black stripes!

Nice to have met you here Buzz!

Cheers  wave 
 
Sinlock
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:23 am

Just to pop in one more fact that hasn't been mentioned yet.....

Depending on the brand and the length/with of the roll, but the average roll costs around $70.00
 
YYZYYT
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting Newark777 (Thread starter):
Could anyone explain what exactly is going on in this picture? Is this guy actually duct taping the covering of the engine pylon? Funny picture either way.

NO!
It's a Gremlin... and look, he's tearing the engine duct tape apart!

YYZYYT

PS What do you mean you can't see him? He's right there!
 
erj-145mech
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 10):
On the Embraer 170.... Hump Seal Repair..!! The sealant used is dry to the touch, but must be protected to fly. I think the AMM allows 3 or 4 days like that until the tape must be removed.

One hundred and fifty calendar hours on the DMI for hump sealant cure time.
 
doug_or
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:51 pm

what in the sam hill is a calender hour?
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
ReidYYZ
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:30 pm

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 23):
calender hour?

Time on the clock as opposed to flight hours.
 
L-188
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:40 pm

There have been more then one light plane in Alaska brought out of the bush, with more duct tape then fabric because a Moose, Bear, or brush took a liking to the airplane.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:15 pm

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 23):
what in the sam hill is a calender hour

Normal time by the watch.
BTW why the term Sam Hill.  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
jarheadk5
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting Sfomb67 (Reply 14):
Gray tape known as "duct" tape is "pit" tape when you enter aviation. I still call it pit tape at home

I've heard duct tape (the regular, cloth, hardware-store variety) called a lot of things over the years... but never "pit tape". Interesting...

Quoting 777 (Reply 15):
During one of those pre-check I remember that, looking at the join between the main rotor and each blade there was a sort of “pressure indicator” subject to accurate check by the pilot before each flight.
If I remember well (at that time I was only 10-12 years old), he told me that this indicator it’s so important to be checked because, in case of loss of internal pressure due to an hole (for instance), your blade will stall and you will crash… Now I’m quite sure that the blades of the Sea King are made with honeycomb construction, so I’m a bit confused…
Maybe the Sea King has a different system or maybe my memory it’s wrong… what’s your opinion?

That indicator is called an IBIS indicator. It's a Sikorsky product; IBIS stands for In-flight Blade Inspection System, and it's basically a sensitive differential-pressure indicator. The spars of most H-3/S-61 main rotor blades are hollow metal; aluminum IIRC for the H-3/S-61, and titanium for the CH-53, and are slightly pressurized with nitrogen (IIRC, the -53E blade had a max pressure of around 16psig). The IBIS compares the nitrogen pressure inside the spar of the blade with the "reference pressure" contained in a bellows inside the IBIS indicator. If the spar pressure falls below the reference pressure, the indicator will "pop" and expose the black stripes.

I'm not 100% positive about the H-3/S-61 installation, but on the H-53 the IBIS is a part of a system called BIM, for Blade Inspection Method. On the -53, the black stripes in the IBIS indicator contain strontium-90, which is slightly radioactive. A sensor in the main rotor pylon looks for this radiation, and if it's detected, triggers a "BIM light" on the caution/advisory panel, and the master caution light.

Some license builders of the H-3/S-61 have developed their own, upgraded rotor blades; some were metal spars with composite pockets replacing the aluminum pockets, some were fully-composite. The CH-53E main rotor blade (which is also used on the MH-53J/M Pave Low helicopter) has a titanium spar, with composite pockets that are filled with honeycomb. I think the British H-3's have a blade of similar construction, but I don't know that for sure. Carson Helicopters has an all-composite blade for the S-61; at one time they were discussing selling them to other S-61 operators as an STC; I don't know if they still intend to.
Cleared to Contact
 
amtrosie
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting JarheadK5 (Reply 27):
I've heard duct tape (the regular, cloth, hardware-store variety) called a lot of things over the years... but never "pit tape". Interesting...



Actually there is more involved. As has been pointed out "speed tape" is an aluminum foil tape that is very strong, and will slice your finger to the bone if not careful when handling it. "Pit Tape" is cargo PIT tape. Developed before Valujet went down in the Everglades in 1995, but coming to prominence afterward. It essentially is designed to certain burn spec., FAR 25.853 (a) and 25.855 (d). Its purpose is to help prevent any flame from spreading- so the theory goes- to an adjacent compartment.
 
SFOMB67
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:25 pm

Quoting Amtrosie (Reply 28):
Pit Tape" is cargo PIT tape

"Pit tape" is used to tape the seams of the Fiberglas panels used to line the walls and ceiling of the cargo pits. Also used to repair small tears in these panels. It really looks like duct tape, but is fire retardant as previously noted and thus much more expensive.
Not as easy as originally perceived
 
MD-90
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:23 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 26):
BTW why the term Sam Hill.

Legend in Alabama has it that it's a location in hell. Also, our bandroom at my high school was located on Sam hill. Our director even had a custom Samhill license plate.

I've only ever heard Southerns say it.

There is an unverified story of a real Mr. Sam Hill:

There is one theory floating around that purports to involve a real Sam Hill. The story goes that a Colonel Samuel Hill, in Guilford, Connecticut, at some unknown time in the early 1800s, perpetually (but unsuccessfully) ran for political office. Hence, "to run like Sam Hill." Unfortunately, Guilford historical records do not yield his name or any other corroborative evidence. Alas. These stories are such fun.

[Edited 2006-01-21 06:25:33]
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Duct Tape+Airplane=Good To Go

Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:35 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 30):

Out here the terms used are very Different.Thanks  Smile

Quoting Sfomb67 (Reply 29):
"Pit tape"


regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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