corey07850
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Non-Holding 360's During Cruise

Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:15 am

My girlfriend is flying DAB-EWR today and I just pulled up her flight on flightaware and noticed it performed a single 360 over SC... It doesn't appear to be holding, and if it was it's holding a large distance from its destination. Any of the seasoned jet-jocks have an explanation? I don't think it would be traffic avoidance or weather, but who knows...

http://map4.flightaware.com/flight_track_map.rvt?ident=COA1473;origin=KDAB;destination=KEWR;key=d5a04b941373964f59a4fb8b43af945300e19ae7;height=600;width=800
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: Non-Holding 360's During Cruise

Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:57 am

Without knowing anymore details and having not been there all I can say is you might be surprised how far away sequenceing into EWR may begin. I've held 3 times in one flight going into EWR and the first hold was over Kentucky!
Maybe the 360 just made a little space to slip another jet or two in the "conga" line.
 
corey07850
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RE: Non-Holding 360's During Cruise

Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:18 am

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 1):
Maybe the 360 just made a little space to slip another jet or two in the "conga" line.

Just talked to my girlfriend and she said the captain warned that EWR would be extremely congested today before the flight took off, so this seems to be the reason... thanks
 
SlamClick
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RE: Non-Holding 360's During Cruise

Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:39 am

It is not at all uncommon for ATC to assign us a hold at some point and just about the time we get turned outbound they re-clear us direct to the holding fix and then back on course. Result is a 360, a donut.

And I agree about the sequencing into any of the BosWash airports. It can begin as early as Jupiter for the really longhaul stuff.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
looneytoon
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RE: Non-Holding 360's During Cruise

Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting Corey07850 (Thread starter):
My girlfriend is flying DAB-EWR today and I just pulled up her flight on flightaware

are you pulling a "FLAIRPORT" on us?
LooneyToon
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Non-Holding 360's During Cruise

Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:52 pm

Could have been a center controller not accepting a hand off, also. Had to do some wacky turns to keep out of their airspace before.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
oly720man
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RE: Non-Holding 360's During Cruise

Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:58 pm

I was once in a BA DC-10 LGW-ATL that did a 360 about 1hr out of ATL. No explanation why. Traffic avoidance, separation??
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
SlamClick
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RE: Non-Holding 360's During Cruise

Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:50 am

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 5):
Could have been a center controller not accepting a hand off, also. Had to do some wacky turns to keep out of their airspace before.

Yes. And I've seen a day where that happened at every sector boundary and every center boundary. We were asked to speed up and slow down time after time after time.

We referred to it as "the day we rowed to Denver." Doesn't happen all that often though.

The east coast of the US is a problem because most planes going up and down between, say BOS and MIA or any points between all have to curve in around the concave shoreline. Contrast with the west coast which is convex and flights from say, SAN to SEA go way inland, over Nevada. By comparison the east coast corridor gets really bunched up.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
corey07850
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RE: Non-Holding 360's During Cruise

Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 7):
The east coast of the US is a problem because most planes going up and down between, say BOS and MIA or any points between all have to curve in around the concave shoreline. Contrast with the west coast which is convex and flights from say, SAN to SEA go way inland, over Nevada. By comparison the east coast corridor gets really bunched up.

Why not avoid this by simply flying from the coast of NC over the Atlantic down into FL (assuming ETOPS A/C)


BTW for anyone interested, the flight path in my original post has changed to the latest flight so the 360 I was talking about isn't there...
 
Tornado82
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RE: Non-Holding 360's During Cruise

Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 2):

Just talked to my girlfriend and she said the captain warned that EWR would be extremely congested today before the flight took off, so this seems to be the reason... thanks

She should be glad she didn't end up in ABE, we picked up a few CO-Ex ERJ's here yesterday due to the congestion at Newark.
 
corey07850
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RE: Non-Holding 360's During Cruise

Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 9):

She should be glad she didn't end up in ABE, we picked up a few CO-Ex ERJ's here yesterday due to the congestion at Newark.

The flight was actually a B735 for a nice change... CO upgraded DAB-EWR in December and seems to be staying this way for a while
 
SlamClick
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RE: Non-Holding 360's During Cruise

Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 8):
Why not avoid this by simply flying from the coast of NC over the Atlantic down into FL (assuming ETOPS A/C)

Some do but it is not cheap. ETOPS costs money in equipment, training and certification. "Extended overwater" has helped some too, but the problem still must be dealt with.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
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litz
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RE: Non-Holding 360's During Cruise

Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:05 am

Last year, I was on a ONT-ATL DL flight ... shortly after we took off, it apparently became apparent that due to 1) huge tailwinds and 2) ATL congestion, we would arrive waaaaay early.

Pilot announced we were going to loiter a bit, and since we were over the Grand Canyon, it was sightseeing time.

Two figure-eights later (and lots of gawking) we continued eastbound ...

 Smile

- litz
 
jetstar
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RE: Non-Holding 360's During Cruise

Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:25 pm

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 8):
Why not avoid this by simply flying from the coast of NC over the Atlantic down into FL (assuming ETOPS A/C)

Airliners flying from the Northeast to Florida do not need to be ETOPS certified if they fly out over the Atlantic. The maximum distance from land is about 125 miles, which is well within the 60 minute for non ETOPS aircraft.

Even from New York City to Bermuda falls within the 60 minute rule so
non ETOPS aircraft can fly this as well.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Non-Holding 360's During Cruise

Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:51 pm

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 13):
Airliners flying from the Northeast to Florida do not need to be ETOPS certified if they fly out over the Atlantic. The maximum distance from land is about 125 miles, which is well within the 60 minute for non ETOPS aircraft.

Within a certain distance from shore (I forget which) they don't even need life jackets.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
SlamClick
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RE: Non-Holding 360's During Cruise

Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:24 am

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 8):
Why not avoid this by simply flying from the coast of NC over the Atlantic down into FL

Also forgot to mention - military airspace out there might be in use on any given day. Some times you may transit, some times not.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
don81603
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RE: Non-Holding 360's During Cruise

Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:40 am

Quoting Litz (Reply 12):
Two figure-eights later (and lots of gawking) we continued eastbound ...

Now there's a captain interested in public relations! If you have to loiter, may as well turn it into a photo op for the PAX. Did you manage to get any good pics?
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

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