David
Topic Author
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2000 9:12 am

How Airplanes Fly?

Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:02 am

MY 10 year old son is doing a science project on " How airplanes fly." Does anybody have any good sources( websites, etc) that would help my son.
Thanks
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: How Airplanes Fly?

Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:10 am

I've not checked them for accuracy but you can try . . .
http://www.howstuffworks.com/index.htm

I have found some errors in . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
but a lot of people use it.

If you find something here but still have questions come on back.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
Msl747
Posts: 349
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:30 am

RE: How Airplanes Fly?

Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:23 am

^^
Both of those are good sources, or you could try google. I think most of us on here could help him out with any questions he might have. I did a science project like this when I was younger. Have fun!

-Matt
Commercial Pilot Certificate: Single and Multi-Engine Land; Instrument Airplane
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: How Airplanes Fly?

Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting Msl747 (Reply 2):
I did a science project like this when I was younger.

I didn't. We built a glider. We had built enough Speedee-Bilt balsa wood model airplanes to know what shape the wing should be and how to build it up. We used redwood "stickers" from the sawmill - like lath. For fabric we had some eighty year old, thoroughly rotted window shades.

For a launch site there was a cliff above the beach and ocean, about 150 feet high, on average. Plenty of vertical for a nice long glide flight.

Fortunately we never got foolhardy enough to get in and launch it. Not only was it too flimsy to support us, we'd completely overlooked primary flight controls.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: How Airplanes Fly?

Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:50 am




Quoting SlamClick (Reply 3):
Not only was it too flimsy to support us, we'd completely overlooked primary flight controls.

Details, details.....  Wink




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: How Airplanes Fly?

Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 4):
Details, details.....

Here is the only important detail.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 3):
Fortunately we never got foolhardy enough to get in and launch it.

It looked like a Jenny with only the lower wing and no landing gear. Wheels were to be part of the launch ramp. Oh, and the wing and tail tips were just square. We weren't craftsmen or anything. The spar was a piece of redwood, which is very soft, and was about the thickness of three of your fingers. It was oriented horizontally intstead of vertically so its greatest strength would have been in crashing not in flying. That may have been precognition on our part.

As I said, no one ever had enough guts to try to fly it. I did lean out over the cliff once with a quarter sheet of plywood held in front of me. Leaned way out into the upslope wind. It was an excellent lesson in the practical side of L/D and, being young, I healed quickly.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
727EMflyer
Posts: 538
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:22 am

RE: How Airplanes Fly?

Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:47 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 1):

I have found some errors in . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
but a lot of people use it.

Can't any one go in and edit wikipedia? I suppose you could fix the errors you found, but whoever put them there in the first place might undo your work...
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: How Airplanes Fly?

Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:25 pm

Simple LINK for kids.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
727EMflyer
Posts: 538
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:22 am

RE: How Airplanes Fly?

Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:40 am

I wondered what errors SlamClick found in wikipedia, so I started reading it.

Quote from the Wikipedia article:

A false explanation for lift has been put forward in mainstream books, and even in scientific exhibitions. Known as the "equal transit-time" explanation, it states that the parcels of air which are divided by an airfoil must rejoin again; because of the greater curvature (and hence longer path) of the upper surface of an aerofoil, the air going over the top must go faster in order to "catch up" with the air flowing around the bottom. Therefore, because of its higher speed the pressure of the air above the airfoil must be lower. Despite the fact that this "explanation" is probably the most common of all, it is false. It has recently been dubbed the "Equal transit-time fallacy." There is no requirement that divided parcels of air rejoin again, and in fact they do not do so. Such an explanation would predict that an aircraft could not fly inverted, which is demonstrably not the case. The explanation also fails to account for aerofoils which are fully symmetrical yet still develop significant lift. Any textbook claiming to be a serious work on the topic will never promote the Equal Transit-time fallacy.

End quote.
I know people have heated discussions about Newton vs. Bernouli but that sounds down-right hostile! Maybe we as Anet should clean up this article???
 
FredT
Posts: 2166
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2002 9:51 pm

RE: How Airplanes Fly?

Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:55 am

I think it is a factual statement and very much to th point, except for perhaps the part about inverted flight faulting the equal transit time fallacy (a new term I hadn't heard before, but which I like).

Newton or Bernoulli, equal transit time is out the window whichever explanation you decide to adhere to.

Further, while "people" may have heated discussions about Newton or Bernoulli, aerodynamicists do not. In fact, Bernoulli and Newton both apply.

Cheers,
Fred
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: How Airplanes Fly?

Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:42 am




Quoting 727EMflyer (Reply 8):
Therefore, because of its higher speed the pressure of the air above the airfoil must be lower. Despite the fact that this "explanation" is probably the most common of all, it is false. It has recently been dubbed the "Equal transit-time fallacy." There is no requirement that divided parcels of air rejoin again, and in fact they do not do so.

Wouldn't mass air flow account for symmetrical airfoils and inverted flight? IIRC, the mass air flow theory doesn't require the two parcels of air to rejoin, but states that air parcels above and below the wing must arrive at the trailing edge of the wing at the same time.




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17055
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: How Airplanes Fly?

Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:06 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 1):
I've not checked them for accuracy but you can try . . .
http://www.howstuffworks.com/index.htm

More specifically http://travel.howstuffworks.com/airplane.htm. The aerodynamics are from 10000 foot perspective but quite clear on the various explanations.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: How Airplanes Fly?

Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:12 am



Just have the kid explain that money makes airplanes fly. Maybe a bit on Chapter 11....


 Wink




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
ReidYYZ
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:00 am

RE: How Airplanes Fly?

Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:08 am

When I was a kid, I was told it was magic that kept airplanes flying. Also when i was a kid, we wore onions on our belts, because that was the style at the time. As far as Newton vs. Bernouli, a good old fashion knife fight would decide the winner, despite the 57 year age difference.
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17055
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: How Airplanes Fly?

Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 12):
Just have the kid explain that money makes airplanes fly. Maybe a bit on Chapter 11....

 Smile Helicopters don't fly at all of course. They're so ugly the ground repels them. Ok it's an old one...

Quoting ReidYYZ (Reply 13):
As far as Newton vs. Bernouli, a good old fashion knife fight would decide the winner, despite the 57 year age difference.

Pistols at 20 paces would be more stylish.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests