TimePilot
Topic Author
Posts: 290
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:40 pm

Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:48 am

Pilots: what do you do during take-off and landing? Do you keep quiet and concentrate? Do you talk to the co-pilot? Is there a rule that you need to stay focused?

Same questions regarding landing: Do you have to concentrate? Is it like sit-up-straight-in-your-seat, elbows perpendicular to the floor making hand signals and all that, Roger this and Roger that, or more like *YAWN* "So I'm taking the kids to Disney Land next week ..." -type idle talk with the right/left leg hanging over the control yoke?

I'm interested in what goes on inside the cockpit.  Big grin
 
futureualpilot
Posts: 2404
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:52 am

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:58 am

Quoting TimePilot (Thread starter):
Is there a rule that you need to stay focused?

I believe most airlines have rules that in effect limit all non-essential chatter between the pilots below 10,000ft. This means that they only talk about things relating to the task at hand, i.e. take-off/climb out or descent/landing.
Life is better when you surf.
 
seanp11
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:16 am

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office

Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:02 am

The sterile cockpit is not just an airline rule, but it is a FAA regulation. I think nowadays pilots are entirely about the business when climbing/descending through 10000 feet.

Quoting TimePilot (Thread starter):
-type idle talk with the right/left leg hanging over the control yoke?

I'm pretty certain no pilots will have their leg hanging over the yoke, that would disengage the autopilot, or at least put it into CWS mode. That is a funny image though.

[Edited 2006-01-23 01:03:17]
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:09 am




Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 2):
I think nowadays pilots are entirely about the business when climbing/descending through 10000 feet.

For the most part, this is the way flight crews operate, but it also depends on corporate culture and professionalism (or lack thereof). I've flown with "professional" pilots whose carefree, casual attitude was rather disturbing. Luckily, that seems to be the exception, rather than the rule.




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
seanp11
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:16 am

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:20 am

Unfortunately, it took a number of crashes to prove why the sterile cockpit rule is so necessary.
 
VuelingAirbus
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:44 am

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:33 am

Thats the copy of the Airbus FCOM (flight crew operating manual)

Quoting FCOM:

Sterile cockpit rule:

Below 10 000 feet, any non-essential conversation within the cockpit and between the cabin and cockpit crews should be avoided. Adherence to this policy facilitates effective crew communication, as well as communication of emergency or safety-related information by cabin crew.

pretty clear instructions...
 
TimePilot
Topic Author
Posts: 290
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:40 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:11 pm

Okay, so from the time the plane gets onto the active until it's at 10,000' it's all business then?

What about landing? Is that the same situation just reversed?
 
TimePilot
Topic Author
Posts: 290
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:40 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:18 pm

Also I ask because I have a friend who used to work for the city subway system. In Japan the rail systems are very rigid in their rules and regulations, and by outside appearances it would seem that the people aren't even allowed to smile.

Well, he's told me stories of everything from people having to go to the bathroom at inopportune times, to leaving a station so fast that the conductor got left behind, to hanging their feet hanging off the controls/out the window!  Wow!

Obviously safety-wise driving a train and flying an aircraft are totally different, but I thought there's be some interesting anecdotes like that from pilots.
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2821
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:53 pm

Quoting TimePilot (Reply 6):
What about landing? Is that the same situation just reversed?

If the aircraft is below 10,000 feet, the cockpit is sterle. Doesn't matter if it's departing or arriving. The only talk that may be conducted is operation specific like checklists and whatnot.
DMI
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29929
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:26 pm

Quoting TimePilot (Thread starter):
Do you have to concentrate

Follow the checklist.

No unnecessary talk below 10'000ft.Above it depends on the Individuals concerned  Smile

Rules are for a purpose.Follow them.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
bri2k1
Posts: 952
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:13 am

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:35 pm

Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 2):
The sterile cockpit is not just an airline rule, but it is a FAA regulation.

FAR 121.542 and 135.100, enacted in 1981, to be exact. But, according to the Aviation Safety Reporting System (ASRS), they're not always followed. It surprises me, because everything that's said is recorded. Sure, it's probably erased, if there's no incident. But, it's just not worth it.

http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/directline_issues/dl4_sterile.htm
Position and hold
 
wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:01 pm

Landings and take offs-like everything in flying- becomes a second nature to a veteran pilot.You type your computer everyday on your office and I land 200 people passenger jet on a gusty, windy, wet runway.It becomes a part of the routine but landing on a runway like this never looses its excitement.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d52/WING321/DSC00241.jpg


Big jets can take everything but unseriousness. It may be compared to riding a rodeo horse.When you hang on it you can ride it but it waits your weakest moment,tiniest mistake to push you down to the ground.

Therefore pilot should be always alert,focused and keep eyes wide open during the critical phases of the flight and believe me there is always plenty of time to discuss your plans to Disneyland during the long boring cruise phase.

Best Regards.WING

[Edited 2006-01-23 12:30:50]

[Edited 2006-01-23 12:31:28]
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting Oe-LDA (Reply 12):
I am totally missing basics and clueless about airline flying!

For the first time I find something to agree with you.If you don't mind me asking, how old are you?
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
OE-LDA
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2000 5:29 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office

Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting Wing (Reply 13):
If you don't mind me asking, how old are you?

Let me put it that way: I have seen Istanbul without the Bosporus Bridge. But it was no longer called Byzanz.  old 


OE-LDA

[Edited 2006-01-24 21:48:23]
I am totally missing basics and clueless about airline flying!
 
wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:20 am

Its not called Byzanz(or whatever)since 1453 so must be really old.Should It be too much to ask a little bit more maturity on your posts?I am really asking this with all my kindness(no sarcasm or offence of anykind intended)

Best Regards.WING.

ps: I also kindly request you to remove me from your respected list and change your country flag wherever you belong.Thanks in advance.
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
OE-LDA
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2000 5:29 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:35 am

Quoting Wing (Reply 15):
change your country flag

WILCO, Oscar Echo Lima Delta Alpha
I am totally missing basics and clueless about airline flying!
 
TimePilot
Topic Author
Posts: 290
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:40 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:27 am

Quoting Wing (Reply 11):
Landings and take offs-like everything in flying- becomes a second nature to a veteran pilot.You type your computer everyday on your office and I land 200 people passenger jet on a gusty, windy, wet runway.It becomes a part of the routine ...

As a nervous flyer, I find comfort in that.

I don't have an image of pilots struggling with the controls like some WWII bomber out of control, but there's a level of solace one gains from knowing that other people (specifically the pilots) are relaxed and know exactly what's going on.
 
cancidas
Posts: 3985
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:34 am

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:26 am

it depends on what i'm flying and who i'm flying with. there are 2 people that i know, and know very well for that matter, that i won't tell to shut up below 10K. having said that, they also won't bullshit with me if i'm pilot flying. if it's a type i'm not 110% comfortable on i don't want to hear anyting but checklists coming out of the mouth of my right-seater.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:18 am

If I had to guess, I'd say airline pilots are probably just focused and relaxed during takeoff and approach almost to the point of being bored and uninterested, especially since the computer flys most of flight. I would say that the only time their heart rate is even a few beats up is the last few seconds before touchdown as that is where skill comes in.
 
futureualpilot
Posts: 2404
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:52 am

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:05 pm

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 18):
If I had to guess, I'd say airline pilots are probably just focused and relaxed during takeoff and approach almost to the point of being bored and uninterested, especially since the computer flys most of flight. I would say that the only time their heart rate is even a few beats up is the last few seconds before touchdown as that is where skill comes in.

I should hope they are most alert during these times as they are the most critical times, when the pilots are busiest and when they have the biggest workload. dont want a bored/uninterested pilot shooting an ILS down to minimums with my family, friends, myself or anybody else aboard. I know when Im flying for the airlines, I wont be like that.
Life is better when you surf.
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2821
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:34 pm

The NTSB just realeased the final report on a Jetstream crash at KIRK (Kirksville, Mo) in 2004 that killed 14 of the 16 onboard. One of the primary factors in the crash was determined to be the lack of professionalism from the crew. They were chatting, and over 40 explatives were recorded on the CVR leading right up until they descended below MDA and right into the ground.
DMI
 
TimePilot
Topic Author
Posts: 290
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:40 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:45 pm

I wouldn't want someone bored to sleep at the controls either. Someone like Wing perhaps, who seems to enjoy a little challenge to keep his skills up  Wink
 
TheSorcerer
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:35 am

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:40 am

Does the sterile cockpit rule apply to A/C taxiing?
thanks
Dominic
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17212
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:43 am

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 20):
The NTSB just realeased the final report on a Jetstream crash at KIRK (Kirksville, Mo) in 2004 that killed 14 of the 16 onboard. One of the primary factors in the crash was determined to be the lack of professionalism from the crew. They were chatting, and over 40 explatives were recorded on the CVR leading right up until they descended below MDA and right into the ground.

That's just so disgraceful on any job. I get annoyed if the FedEx/Kinko's clerk is talking on the phone with her boyfriend while I wait. Same kind of unprofessionalism, luckily a tad less responsibility. There's no excuse for that kind of thing.

However, some of the blame must rest on the training department.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
futureualpilot
Posts: 2404
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:52 am

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:55 am

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 22):
Does the sterile cockpit rule apply to A/C taxiing?

Yes, anytime the aircraft is in operation below 10,000ft. the sterile cockpit rule is in effect.
Life is better when you surf.
 
Ralgha
Posts: 1589
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 1999 6:20 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:04 am

Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 24):
anytime the aircraft is in operation below 10,000ft. the sterile cockpit rule is in effect.

No, sterile cockpit does not apply when in cruise below 10,000.

Regardless of what anybody thinks, the sterile cockpit rule is probably the second most broken rule in the world, right behind road speed limits.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
 
cancidas
Posts: 3985
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:34 am

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:06 am

sterile cockpit applies when the a/c is inflight. never seen it applied when taxxing.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:53 pm

We can extend the "sterile cockpit" not only as silenced cockpit but more like a no action unrelated to what your role(PF or PM)is at the present time.

The reason for the sterile cockpit concept born is to avoid any distraction which will effect the safety of the aircraft especially on the critical phase of the flight(descend or climb through 10000).So written or not (as it may differ with company SOP's) my opinion is no unnecessary talk even on taxi to the gate.

I know there is really enough time to talk about everything during looong cruise portion,and there will be enough time after you parked at the gate,I cant find a good reason to make a mistake while being occupied with an unnecassary action.Thats my 2 cents.WING
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
goboeing
Posts: 2433
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 5:31 am

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:59 am

Quoting Cancidas (Reply 26):
sterile cockpit applies when the a/c is inflight. never seen it applied when taxxing.

At least one major US airline includes taxiing as a time when the cockpit must be sterile. As Ralgha said, whether or not this is obeyed at all times depends but taxiing is sterile cockpit time.

Moving on the ground is easily one of the top ten areas for making mistakes. Hitting wingtips or ground vehicles, not holding short of a runway, not holding short of a taxiway, wrong turns, and more. Plenty of reasons for the sterile cockpit rule to include this "phase of flight."
 
wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 28):
Moving on the ground is easily one of the top ten areas for making mistakes.

Exactly and also is at the top of the list where the most aviation accidents occur.
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17212
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:39 am

Quoting Wing (Reply 29):
Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 28):
Moving on the ground is easily one of the top ten areas for making mistakes.

Exactly and also is at the top of the list where the most aviation accidents occur.

Joke in bad taste coming up:

In fact, all aviation accidents involve a ground impact.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:21 am




Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 30):
In fact, all aviation accidents involve a ground impact.

I can think of one particular airplane that crashed and never touched the ground.

Actually, you of all of us should know about it.  Wink




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17212
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:51 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 31):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 30):
In fact, all aviation accidents involve a ground impact.

I can think of one particular airplane that crashed and never touched the ground.

Actually, you of all of us should know about it.

I should know? Hmmm... I'll have to think about that one.

Well I'll amend that and say "ground or water impact". And in the end of course the sea bottom should be counted as "ground".
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:07 am




Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 32):
Well I'll amend that and say "ground or water impact". And in the end of course the sea bottom should be counted as "ground".

The one I have in mind never impacted the ground, and yet never impacted any body of water. It did crash, though, and the pilot lived.

You're gonna hate me for the technicality....  biggrin 




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:25 am



Starlion, I just thought of an entire category of crashes that also never touched the ground or any body of water, but I would expect you to be particularly familiar with the aforementioned one....

 Wink




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
seanp11
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:16 am

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office

Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:09 am

Is it an mid air collision?

Edit: Never mind, the pilot wouldn't survive.

[Edited 2006-01-27 22:10:54]
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:11 am




Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 35):
Is it an mid air collision?

No, those would eventually come to rest either on the ground or at the bottom of a body of water.




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17212
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:51 am

Building collision? ARGH!
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:19 am




Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 37):
Building collision? ARGH!

No, although if the aircraft were to somehow become lodged in the building, I suppose it could qualify. Anyway, it'll come to you....and then you'll probably book a flight to CVG and give me a thorough thrashing.  Wink




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
wing
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 9:10 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:27 am

I personally met the pilot who actually bounced on the water and kept on flying during a low flying exercise on a T-37military trainer.Interestingly the vital parts of the airplane was intact but the bely has a deep scratch that caused the airplane to be scrapped due to damage beyond repair.
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Take-off & Landing - Another Day At The Office?

Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:02 pm




Quoting Wing (Reply 39):
I personally met the pilot who actually bounced on the water and kept on flying during a low flying exercise on a T-37military trainer.

Reminds me of the video of a guy....I want to say he was in a Super Cub, but I'm not sure....who locked his brakes and surfed along the surface of a river.

 scared 




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: fr8mech, rbretas, StereoTechque and 8 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos