julesmusician
Posts: 378
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:25 am

Push Back Right To The Runway? The Idea?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:59 am

It may have been already discussed but surely being pushed back then detaching the aircraft and letting it go under its own engine power into a lengthy queue before take off is far less economical than being pulled all the way to the runway? Has there ever been some sums done to work out the cost of idleing in a long waiting queue for take off on a busy morning from a major city airport to a tug taking you all the way to the runway and then detaching?
African Civil Aviation Commission president "You don't want to fly out as a passenger and come back as cargo."
 
SFOMB67
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:20 pm

RE: Push Back Right To The Runway? The Idea?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:47 am

Problem I see, is that everyone would have to do this. Wouldn't want to be on a tug behind a plane taxing under its own power. I'm sure there's lots of other reasons....manpower, Congestion, etc.
Not as easy as originally perceived
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Push Back Right To The Runway? The Idea?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:56 am

I thought the same but then realized it would be a huge expenditure of man power and extra equipment. Now a car wash conveyer type of thing would be interesting.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
TheSorcerer
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:35 am

RE: Push Back Right To The Runway? The Idea?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:34 am

Depending on where they started their engines it could block the runway for longer than necessary. If the A/C starts it's engines on the Runway it would take a lot longer for it to take off and clear the runway. Longer holds for approaching A/C and potentially more Go arounds would maybe be a
by-product.
Dominic
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
dw747400
Posts: 1091
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 8:24 am

RE: Push Back Right To The Runway? The Idea?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:25 am

Not to mention you need either an engine or APU for electrical/hydraulic power.
CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
 
ArmitageShanks
Posts: 3780
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 5:30 am

RE: Push Back Right To The Runway? The Idea?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:12 pm

Engine warm up time and system checks that can only be done with engines on, too.
 
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HAWK21M
Posts: 29978
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Push Back Right To The Runway? The Idea?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:20 pm

Unnecessary buildup of GSE on the busy path to the runway.Also in case of any detected problem it would lead to considerable delay.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
vc10
Posts: 1360
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:13 am

RE: Push Back Right To The Runway? The Idea?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:47 pm

In the early days of Concorde's operation to Washington from London before all the fuel saving mods were done, serious consideration was given to towing the aircraft to the end of the runway before starting the engines so as to save fuel. I think it was only ever done once as the congestion was enormous

little vc10
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 3945
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: Push Back Right To The Runway? The Idea?

Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:45 pm

Quite often aircraft don't depart in the same order that they are in que. This is done at airports that stagger the way an aircraft turns after departure to expedite such as first turns 15 deg left second goes runway heading next turns 15 deg right (US radar separation standard). So if the 4th aircraft is tugging to the runway and they are going a different direction than the other 3 in front they would be rushed to unhook the tug and get started and warmed.......at some airports the concept could work but at most probably not let alone the congestion in the hammer head with all the tugs wandering around, someone would cross an active runway without a clearance at some point.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
jetstar
Posts: 1376
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Push Back Right To The Runway? The Idea?

Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:48 pm

The nose gear struts are not designed to take the load and stress of long distance towing or push backs on a fully loaded airplane.

While the gate parking areas of airports are almost flat, many airports have dips and rises along the taxiways. The stress on the nose gear structure over a period of time could lead to premature failures of the nose gear.

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