JAGflyer
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Animals On The Runway

Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:14 pm

I am listening to YYZ ATC and it seems a Westjet 737 struck a rabbit on the runway. Tower is trying to move everyone over to a paralell runway so "field crews" can clean up the remains of bugs bunny.

How often does stuff like this happen at airports? Are animals getting hit by landing or taking off aircraft a problem. I know birds in the engines can be problematic.

Thanks
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2H4
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:19 pm



More often than you might think. Head on over to http://www.ntsb.gov, search the accident database using keyword "animal", and you'll get plenty of hits. No pun intended.




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Starlionblue
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:53 pm

Rabbits aren't a huge threat to a plane. I jumpseated on an SK MD-81 once and the plane landing before us reported a rabbit (probably a jackrabbit since it was ARN). Rabbits get in the darnedest places so it's probably pretty common.

Larger animals like moose, deer and so forth are worse.
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theCoz
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:33 pm

I saw a coyote on the runway while taking off once. It happens sometimes at Scottsdale Airport.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:34 pm

At Bom.There is a very serious issue of Dogs on the Tarmac.However they seem to be quite smart & know when to move from the Taxitrack when an Aircraft taxies by.
There were a few occasions when the Runway was occupied by a dog which caused a Go around.Since one occasion was a VIP aircraft,things started getting cleaned up,but lasted only a few months  Smile
regds
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wing
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:14 pm

There is actually a deliberately created habitats near the runways in some airports.Wild birds to hunt other birds and the rabbits for example.

But in some less orginised places its not uncommon to see dogs in and around the airfields.I personally experinced a Goaround at Tamanraset airport at Algeria from almost 20 feet because of a group of dogs in the runway,in 2003.

Another one also from Algeria,after we taxi in to the apron we were assigned the pos no 5 but there are 3 dogs were resting on the yellow line leading to no 5.So we stopped but the dog was not interested to move like it owned the place.As we understand that it will take a while the ground staff to remove the dog and the dog has no intension of moving we accepted the defeat and turned back to park to next place no 4.

After the engines stopped I looked to the dog as it was walking like "the king of the world" after all it forced a huge passenger jet out of its terriority..

Finally a joke I heard about animals in runways.

The vacating aircraft reports a dead rabbit on the runway to the tower.
TWR:Delta 123 there is a dead animal reported on the runway
Delta123: Roger we will notify our caterers.  Smile
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vzlet
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:56 pm

From an article on deer-control efforts at Little Rock AFB:

"The C-130 fleet experienced eight deer strikes between 1977 and 1998, costing over $52,000. That didn’t seem too bad, but three of those strikes occurred at Little Rock AFB. One was in 1993 and two in 1998, for a total cost of $23,000, not including loss of those aircraft during downtime. We also
investigated strikes by other, smaller aircraft of the type that often transit our field. We found Class B and C reports on C-12, T-37, T-38, F-16 and C-21 aircraft. The strikes included Coyote, wild pig and deer, with damage ranging from none to as high as $482,513."

I've also heard that a Pakistani F-16 was written off as a result of a collision with a wild pig on the runway.
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2H4
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:18 pm




Quoting Wing (Reply 5):
After the engines stopped I looked to the dog as it was walking like "the king of the world" after all it forced a huge passenger jet out of its terriority..

Heh heh....well, he certainly proved his point.




Quoting Vzlet (Reply 6):
The C-130 fleet experienced eight deer strikes between 1977 and 1998, costing over $52,000. That didn’t seem too bad, but three of those strikes occurred at Little Rock AFB. One was in 1993 and two in 1998, for a total cost of $23,000

Excluding that $23,000 C-130 repair, the average deer strike repair on the remaining C-130s comes out to $4143. Not bad, considering the cost a deer strike can inflict upon a smaller, more fragile aircraft like a Cessna, Mooney, etc.




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HAWK21M
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:35 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 7):
Quoting Wing (Reply 5):
After the engines stopped I looked to the dog as it was walking like "the king of the world" after all it forced a huge passenger jet out of its terriority..

Heh heh....well, he certainly proved his point.

Thats the best part....They never seem to run away.Just walk away slowly.
regds
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2H4
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:40 pm




Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 8):
Thats the best part....They never seem to run away.Just walk away slowly.

You know, I bet someone could do a study that proves an air horn STC would be a cost-effective modification.

 biggrin 




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HAWK21M
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:54 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 9):
You know, I bet someone could do a study that proves an air horn STC would be a cost-effective modification

Wont be surprising if you see the Dogs then equipped with Ear plugs.  biggrin 
regds
MEL
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freakydeaky
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:38 am

Although I've had a few encounters with animals on the airport grounds - I've ony hit birds in the air. I've always managed to swerve enough, or hit the brakes while on the ground to miss the ground based ones. In the air, collision avoidance is all up to them.

I've swerved on landing rollout to miss a turtle that was ambling across the centerline, delayed a takeoff for a waddling goup of ducks to traverse the runway, slammed the brakes on a high-speed turnoff to miss a small mammal that ran in front of me. Years ago while in my turboprop, I had a couple dogs that appeared to be on a "roadtrip" approach us as we held in position for takeoff. I couldn't believe that they would just keep approaching the propellers, so I put them in reverse just enough to blow some air forward on them to scare them away. I've had many incidents of "Kildeer" birds acting "injured" to lead me away from their nests (somewhere in the grass between taxiways). That's probably the most endearing thing I've seen because those birds are brave if they think to take on an airplane to save their young.

I've had many bird strikes in the air - one that took out an engine on rotation. Once there was an unfortunate bird strike on my windscreen - bird parts spread out all over the surface to the point where I really couldn't see through it. I'm glad it was at night so I didn't have to actually see the smeared stuff. Ick.

So, I would say seeing animials on the airport is as common as seeing them on the roadside. It happens from time to time.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:18 am

Quoting FreakyDeaky (Reply 11):
In the air, collision avoidance is all up to them.

"Not so much a bird strike as an engine suck"
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futureuapilot
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:33 am

I believe Bill Cosby's Gulfstream hit a dear after it's repairs here in ATW a while back. Don't remember any specifics though.

-You know your flying a Piper when a bird hits you from behind...  Wink

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gorbskow
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:47 am

I can remember seeing deer on the runway twice in my aviation career. The first time I was an instructor in a 152 and had been given a heads up on unicom that there were deer near the runway. I told my student to continue the approach but be ready for a go-around. As we approached the runway we could see 3 or 4 deer on the runway and my student executed a go-around. We came back around to land and they had already ran off the runway.

The other was in a lear 24. Basically as we neared the airport those deer were in a sprint for the woods about as fast as a deer can run. Not sure but if I had to guess the difference between the two occurences would have to be the noise was enough in the lear to scare them away.
 
corey07850
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:04 am

Quoting Gorbskow (Reply 14):

Your Lear 24 isn't exactly the quietest plane around  Wink


In my experience, I would say there is at least 1 animal strike a day at any decent sized airport. I've picked up countless birds, rabbits, even a nice turtle that was cracked in a few pieces.

While not exactly animals, the best I've seen are balloons. Due to the large amount of catered biz-jets at TEB, there would always be big mylar balloons floating around. One time a 172 landed after a training flight and had 4 or 5 helium balloons stuck on the Com1 antenna. I drove over as they were shutting down and they had no clue  Smile
 
KELPkid
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:41 am

I almost hit a Coyote on the runway at LRU one day myself...

Also, once when I was flying as a safety pilot for a friend, while we were on final at PDX for runway 28R, at NIGHT mind you, I heard a loud "thump" when we were about 100' AGL. After we landed and taxied into Flightcraft, I inspected both leading edges of the 172. One of the inspection panels on the left wing had black feathers jammed into the panel and blood...I called the PDX tower from Flightcraft to report the birdstrike  Smile No damage at all from that one.
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turnit56N
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:47 am

Deer in upper Michigan and Canada are plentiful at the smaller airports. At some quieter airports it's SOP to do a low pass to scare the deer off the runway before you land.

In Florida, the other place I frequently flew light aircraft, it's not uncommon to see turtles on the runway, but they're usually easy to avoid. Occasionally you'll see wild pigs, too....which I would really not want to run into with a light aircraft.
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KELPkid
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:49 am

Also, there was the Learjet incedent in AST around late 2002, early 2003, where N546PA (IIRC) was totalled when it hit an Elk on runway 8 at AST. This was a Learjet 36A, if I remember correctly...I may have muddled some of the details like the tail number. Amazingly, everyone onboard escaped unhurt (the plane was on it's takeoff run and past V1) and the aircraft was almost completely consumed by the post-crash fire.

I just wonder if the game warden let them keep the road, err...runway kill after the accident  Wink
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turnit56N
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:55 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 18):
I just wonder if the game warden let them keep the road, err...runway kill after the accident

Actually, a friend of mine caught a deer with his Seneca's wingtip in MI. Luckily his airplane wasn't too badly damaged and he wasn't hurt even though the glancing impact slung him off the runway.

The DNR did indeed let him keep the venison.
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mandala499
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:28 pm

1. Night landings + animals... not a nice thing...
A 732F last year hit 3 cows on landing in Banda Aceh... The cows were "resting" on the asphalt because of the residual heat left from the daytime... In comes the 737 and according to witneses (not the accident report) 1 missed the #2 engine and was swiped by the right main landing gear... one was swiped by the nose gear, and hurled onto the left main landing gear... and the other one ended up as corned beef after being ingested into the #1. Yucks. Left landing gear collapsed... But the aircraft was written off thanks to a screwup in moving the aircraft, causing wingspar damage.

2. Animal on runway and no reverse = can you manouver your aircraft?
F28, PK-MGK, flown by a friend of mine landing into Maumere Airport... after touchdown, a goat was on the runway, no reverse, no noise = goat stayed put until the nose gear split it to 3... MGK has since been called the "Merpati Goat Killer"...

3. Cows & Airport Security = Shoot to kill authorised.
In Sorong Mainland Airport (Now Sorong Domine Eduard Osok (WASS-new)), when an aircraft was circling above, the security and police had to run on motorbikes up and down the runway shooting to get the cows off the runway. Any cows that remain can be pushed off the runway by cars. Any cows too near the runway and/or returning to the runway when the aircraft is taking off or landing can be shot for safety reasons without compensation to the cow owners... One of the bizzare tales from the airport staff...

Mandala499
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SFOMB67
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:01 pm

I remember being at CDG about 15 years ago, taxing out to fly to GVA and seeing quite a few rabbits out between the taxiway and runway. Don't know if they're still around or not.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:29 pm

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 20):
A 732F last year hit 3 cows on landing in Banda Aceh...

Wasn't this during Tsunami relief.
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Dreamflight767
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:39 pm

Don't forget that there was an AF A-330 that hit a cow upon landing in Africa (Nigeria?) a few months ago. It caused some significant damage to the airplane.
 
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airkas1
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:49 pm

A F50 hit a pig while taking-off in ZIG, Senegal on january 8th.
The right main gear got all red and stuff. The pig didn't survive ofcourse.

I've got the photos, but I'm not sure I'm allowed to post (although I don't work at that company any more)
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wing
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:13 am

Quoting Sfomb67 (Reply 21):
I remember being at CDG about 15 years ago, taxing out to fly to GVA and seeing quite a few rabbits out between the taxiway and runway. Don't know if they're still around or not.

Yes they are still there  Smile
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mandala499
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:03 am

#4... Lizards and CFM56s... don't take your chances...
I remember 2 years ago a Garuda 734 requested traffic info from tower and then requested to "hold current position for about 2 minutes"... Tower asked if there was a problem... "Indonesia 173 has a 2m lizard crossing in front. We're delaying take off for another 2 minutes."

Threw the binoculars on the aircraft and there was a huge reptile crawling across the runway... Damage done = caused a B1900D to circle a few times waiting for the 734 to take off thanks to the lizard...

Mandala499
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Starlionblue
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting Wing (Reply 25):
Quoting Sfomb67 (Reply 21):
I remember being at CDG about 15 years ago, taxing out to fly to GVA and seeing quite a few rabbits out between the taxiway and runway. Don't know if they're still around or not.

Yes they are still there

Well, maybe their descendants Big grin
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AirIndiaOne
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:20 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 22):
Wasn't this during Tsunami relief.

Exactly. And this hampered rescue operations and the runway was closed for over 24 hours.
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wing
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 27):
Well, maybe their descendants

OK you've got me on that Big grin
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msllsmith
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:54 am

Quoting TheCoz (Reply 3):
I saw a coyote on the runway while taking off once. It happens sometimes at Scottsdale Airport.

While flying Cargo once (jumpseat) into DEN as we landed, the Cpt said,"Oh man, I think we hit a coyote.... did anyone else see it?" The chorus said,"Yes"

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 15):
even a nice turtle that was cracked in a few pieces.

Man I hate hitting turtles. I really like turtles.

Quoting Turnit56N (Reply 19):
The DNR did indeed let him keep the venison.

Which brings to mind my favorite recipe for venison: (a reprint from another post..... re: Mammal hits on runway...... it's a long story and really quite self explanatory Smile


Braised Bambi a l’Avion
“A sure hit on a winter afternoon for your family and friends”


3 lbs Bambi
Flour for dredging
1 bottle dry red wine
Bay leaf
Two sprigs fresh thyme
6 juniper berries
2 chopped carrots
1 chopped onion
4 peppercorns crushed
Salt
Heavy casserole with tight fitting lid


Deplane passengers. Collect 3 lbs Bambi before FAA and local FBO remove for “evidence”. Be sure to pick over carefully and remove any small pieces of Plexiglas, Carry-on luggage, etc.

Wash and pat dry. Rub with salt and dredge in flour. Brown in heavy casserole. Add vegetables, brown. When onions and carrots are nicely golden add wine, bay leaf, juniper berries, thyme and peppercorns. Bring to simmer on top of stove. Put in slow oven at 325 degrees for three hours.

Serve with bags of peanuts and pretzels, and very small cans of Coke.


Have a Happy Holiday and a Joyous New Year in 2000

From my Family to Yours,

Lynda Smith

Quoting Wing (Reply 5):
The vacating aircraft reports a dead rabbit on the runway to the tower.
TWR:Delta 123 there is a dead animal reported on the runway
Delta123: Roger we will notify our caterers.

Enough said. (As a F/A flying into CDG I would make a point of pointing out the running rabbits on the field. Kind of an extra attraction of coming into Paris.)

Once while having a flight with the FAA (always a pleasure) at twilight..... we were landing and my FAA chum (?) said, "Oh, how beautiful! A herd of Deer on the runway...... what do you think we should do?"

Duhhhhhh!, I don't know. Go around?...... ?
There's nothing more beautiful than flying into the dawn.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:56 am

Hey rabbit does actually taste great. But I don't think I've ever had the "mangled by a plane variety".
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
 
msllsmith
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:06 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 31):
Hey rabbit does actually taste great. But I don't think I've ever had the "mangled by a plane variety".

You've never lived until you've had Rabbit Tartar...... with a robust Red wine.

(We may need ANCflyer here)
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turnit56N
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:02 am

Quoting Msllsmith (Reply 30):
Braised Bambi a l’Avion
“A sure hit on a winter afternoon for your family and friends”

Heehee....that's good.

My friend did say his Runway Venison tasted good, but it should have considering it was the most expensive steak he'd ever eaten (several thousand in Seneca repairs).
Aviation is not so much a profession as it is a disease.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:17 pm

Any Incident of a "Dog strike" in Aviation History.
regds
MEL
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je89_w
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:56 pm

In Dillingham Airfield (HDH/PHDH) on Oahu, Hawaii, a man crossed the runway while it was active. The airport is an uncontrolled airfield, used by gliders and props. The largest aircraft to land there was a C-130. Seconds later while the man was still on the runway, the ATC controller blasted on the loudspeaker, "HEY, GET OFF THE RUNWAY!"

The runway is between the prop area and the glider area. Now imagine a Cessna making a swoop in at the time.


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amtrosie
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:15 pm

A friend of my father's, who flew dive bombers for the Marine Corps. off of Guadalcanal during WWII, tells the following story: Every morning he used to warm up the aircraft's engine in the anticipation of the inevitable attacks by the Japanese. His gunner used to stand up in his gun turret, prop wash in his face, and watch the sun rise and the gooney birds flying around. One morning while warming up his plane, the pilot lazily watch the gooney birds dive at the planes warming up. One gooney bird was playing "chicken" with the large prop of the bomber by diving at the prop and pulling up at the last second. Well, one time, the gooney bird mis-judged his "angle of attack" and slammed into the rotating prop. The old gunner of this dive bomber was not quick enough to duck, and as a result had an early breakfast.....to say the least.  white 
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:37 pm

Surprisingly since last week the Dogs on the Tarmac have vanished.Guess someones been reading this thread.
 Smile
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MEL
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Starlionblue
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:36 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 37):
Surprisingly since last week the Dogs on the Tarmac have vanished.Guess someones been reading this thread.

I would stay away from the cafeteria for a few days...
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
 
mandala499
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:07 am

MEL,
Dogstrike? Well we've had pilots deliberately throttling up during brakes in early morning to try and throw some dogs into the air... much to the viewing pleasure of the following aircraft... *Gotta love low lying engines for these*...

Mandala499
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HAWK21M
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:29 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 38):
I would stay away from the cafeteria for a few days...

The Restraunts open at Night are all Vegetarian ones.I guess I'll go Veggie for a few Days  Smile

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 39):
we've had pilots deliberately throttling up during brakes in early morning to try and throw some dogs into the air... much to the viewing pleasure of the following aircraft

Thats the only Time I notice them sprint,When the Exhaust hits.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
2H4
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:37 pm




Man, I'd hate to hit one of these...


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mandala499
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:26 pm

MEL,
If I am an animal, a Batavia 732 and a Merpati 732 had both scored hits on me on the apron *on purpose*... LOL, and also when friends are flying and you're on the apron (parallel parking), watch out, they can still pull pranks ! LOL

Mandala499
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HAWK21M
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:15 pm

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 42):
and also when friends are flying and you're on the apron (parallel parking), watch out, they can still pull pranks ! LOL

As long as there are no pranks with the Weather radar.  Smile
regds
MEL
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mandala499
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:14 am

MEL,
That's a definite ouch ! I used to pull those pranks on goats using laser range finders... those "cadet" days were fun! Bwahahahaha... *which brings it back to the animals on the runway topic again*...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
andz
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RE: Animals On The Runway

Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:08 am

I remember back in the early 70s at Kariba, the Rhodesian army had to go out and chase elephants off the runway so that an Air Rhodesia Viscount could land. They had to do the same before we could take off.

Once a rabbit caused an aborted takeoff of an SAA A300, the flight engineer saw it during the takeoff roll and called out (in his French accent) "it's a bunny, it's a bunny!" the captain thought he said "it's burning" and aborted the takeoff.

Another SAA A300, I was jumpseating and as we turned off 03R after landing in JNB the planes lights caught a dog on the taxiway, the flight engineer blew the hooter (I didn't know planes had them till then) while the FO called the tower to report it.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...

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