EGGP
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:29 am

Partial Loss Of Wing

Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:48 am

Hi, I’m new to the forum. Been following it for about a year, only signed up once I gained confidence in paypal.

How much wing can in theory be lost from an aircraft before it becomes ‘totally’ un-flyable?
 
keego
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:34 pm

RE: Partial Loss Of Wing

Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:53 am

That depends on the aircraft type but basically none.
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
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RE: Partial Loss Of Wing

Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:17 am



This Cessna 210 lost between 3 and 4 feet of it's wing after takeoff, and continued on to another airport:

Photos

Link


...From www.aaiu.ie/upload/general/6921-0.pdf:


The aircraft was taking off in daylight hours (15.00 hrs) from a Private (unlicensed) airfield when all four occupants onboard heard a “thump”. The Pilot Flying (PF) reported that, “there was no sensation of hitting anything, no yaw and no feeling of alteration of flight of the aircraft.”

Following some discussion between the PF and the right-hand seat occupant (who was the holder of a Private Pilot’s Licence) it was considered that the aircraft suffered a bird strike and this was subsequently reported to Shannon ATC.

The aircraft continued its climb to FL195 en-route to Lisbon, in Portugal. Sometime later, the PF observed on the fuel gauge that his port wing tiptank was registering empty, while some fuel still remained in the starboard tiptank.

The PF then decided that it would be prudent to divert to Jersey Airport and check the aircraft on the ground. After an uneventful landing at Jersey (17.07 hrs), it was found that the entire wingtip tank, and a portion of the port wing/aileron assembly, was missing.

A visit by the AAIU to the departure airfield the following day determined that the aircraft had struck a tall tree during take-off. Some fragments of the wing structure were found within the body of the tree, while the port tiptank was located approximately 70 metres from the impact point, in an adjacent field. There were no injuries. The Investigation is ongoing and a Report will be published in due course.





2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
aeroweanie
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Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:33 pm

RE: Partial Loss Of Wing

Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:18 am

As long as the pilot can maintain roll control and the remaining wing area's lift coefficient is not pushed beyond CLmax, the aircraft will be flyable.
 
MDorBust
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Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Partial Loss Of Wing

Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting Keego (Reply 1):
That depends on the aircraft type but basically none.

Unless you fly Eagles... in which case apparently a whole wing.

http://israeli-weapons.com/weapons/aircraft/f-15/F-15.htm

Quote:
One-winged landing

In the summer of 1983, an Israeli F-15 staged a mock dogfight with Skyhawks for training purposes, near Nahal Tzin in the Negev desert. During the exercise, one of the Skyhawks miscalculated and collided forcefully with the F-15's wing root. The F-15's pilot was aware that the wing had been seriously damaged, but decided to try and land in a nearby airbase. It was only after he had landed, when he climbed out of the cockpit and looked backward, that the pilot realized what had happened: the wing had been completely torn off the plane, and he had landed the plane with only one wing attached.

A few months later, the damaged F-15 had been given a new wing, and returned to operational duty in the squadron. The engineers at McDonnell Douglas had a hard time believing the story of the one-winged landing: as far as their planning models were concerned, this was an impossibility.


These Hornets also made a pretty good attempt at loseing parts in flight

"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
IFACN
Posts: 149
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:14 am

RE: Partial Loss Of Wing

Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:19 am

Of course I suppose that if I loose not only the wingtip or some feet of the outboard wing but also part or all of an aileron it will be really bad...

Also I think that if the wing spar(s) are cracked by the impact (even if the pilot doesn't feel any immediate attitude change), it will also be a bad situation...

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 2):
determined that the aircraft had struck a tall tree during take-off. Some fragments of the wing structure were found within the body of the tree

What's amazing me is that nobody noticed any missing part looking out of the windows, and that the PF realized the "empty tank" some time later...
May someone that has more flying experience than my 20 minutes on a 172 help me to understand?

Regards,
A.
 
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HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Partial Loss Of Wing

Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:18 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 4):

Yeah I remember the F15 story well.Amazing.
Even the DHL A300 at Bagdad struck by a SAM was incredible too.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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litz
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

RE: Partial Loss Of Wing

Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:27 am

PSA 182, a 727, went uncontrolled after a collision with a C-172 ...

I'm not sure exactly what the cause of it going uncontrolled was, whether it was the damage to the wing, hydraulic systems damage or what ...

I've only ever seen the one famous picture of it rolling over, wing on fire.

http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-psa182.shtml

That is one of the few cases I can think of, of an airliner-class plane with major wing damage ... Certainly one of, if not THE, only one with a clear picture like that taken, showing the damage (DHL in Baghdad being the other).

You can clearly see a goodly sized chunk torn from the leading edge, the fire on the trailing edge, and maybe even a chunk missing from the outboard end.

- litz
 
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litz
Posts: 1877
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

RE: Partial Loss Of Wing

Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 8):
Here's the photo Litz is referring to. I recommend against clicking the link, unless you want to have to deal with about 8 pop-under ads from Airdisaster.

I forget sometimes not everyone has Firefox with Adblock ... surely the best thing ever invented, right after spinning wood twigs on the front end of airfoils ...

Is it considered "kosher" to directly link a picture like that?

- litz
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 17092
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RE: Partial Loss Of Wing

Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:02 am

Quoting Litz (Reply 9):
I forget sometimes not everyone has Firefox with Adblock ... surely the best thing ever invented, right after spinning wood twigs on the front end of airfoils ...

Amen.

Quoting Litz (Reply 9):
Is it considered "kosher" to directly link a picture like that?

Well... Strictly speaking it's not but it's not like we're slashdotting a tiny server. I doubt he'll get 100 hits, and they're spread out over a matter of days. In this case I wouldn't worry about it but use your head in these cases.

Someone stole a link from me once and my bandwidth usage went out of line. It was at some ridiculous site. As soon as I saw what was happening I changed the pic out for some rather hardcore S&M porn. Fixed the problem right quick too Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
SFOMB67
Posts: 371
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RE: Partial Loss Of Wing

Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:53 pm

Seems I remember an aircraft ( 747 or DC8 ) lost the rt wing from #4 engine, outbd, on takeoff from SFO. May have lost #4 engine, too. Can't remember what airline - will try to find more on this. Pretty sure they made back down OK.
Not as easy as originally perceived
 
LeanOfPeak
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RE: Partial Loss Of Wing

Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:20 pm

 
57AZ
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RE: Partial Loss Of Wing

Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:23 pm

That was a Pan Am 707. #4 motor broke off and the wing caught fire. Time/Life has photographs that were taken by a passenger during the emergency. All the flight crew was aware of was that they had lost power from #4 (they didn't learn of the burning wing until they had landed).
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
SFOMB67
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:20 pm

RE: Partial Loss Of Wing

Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:24 pm

On 6/28/1965, Pan Am 707-321, just after takeoff from SFO had #4 engine disintegrate, tearing off the otbd 25' of wing . Plane made emergency landing at Travis AFB. This was the only info I could find, so far. I remember seeing a picture, probably taken by a passenger of the partial wing missing.

www.planecrashinfo.com/unusual.htm
Not as easy as originally perceived
 
57AZ
Posts: 2371
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:55 pm

RE: Partial Loss Of Wing

Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:08 am

More info on this incident. The reason that the outboard section of wing was lost was due to the failure of the wing spars at that location. The failure was due to the intense heat of the fire which erupted when #4 motor broke away, severing fuel lines and live electrical lines. The reason for the failure of the #4 motor was an uncontained turbine blade failure.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=News&id=1791801
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."

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