leigh pilgrim
Posts: 380
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50, 40, 30, 20, Retard, Retard....why?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:22 am

Hello all

Why 'call' the flight crew a 'Retard' just before touch down!!!!!, isnt it actually called a 'Flare' ?????? Smile
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: 50, 40, 30, 20, Retard, Retard....why?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:25 am

Retrad, not the crew, well not in most cases just reduce the power to idle and hang on baby!  Smile
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krisyyz
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RE: 50, 40, 30, 20, Retard, Retard....why?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:27 am

LOL, I've thought about that too, its sounds wierd. I guess its because the pilot has to re-adjust the thrust levers in to idle. I've also herd Re-Fix in a airbus during landing, guess that means to put the thrust into the next postion above idle.

Just a guess,

Krisyyz
 
wing
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RE: 50, 40, 30, 20, Retard, Retard....why?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:10 am

Quoting Leigh pilgrim (Thread starter):
Why 'call' the flight crew a 'Retard' just before touch down!!!!!, isnt it actually called a 'Flare' ??????

Its not calling you to "Flare" the airplane ,it is "reminding" the crew to take the Autothrust from the climb detend to Ýdle.The Autothrust will continue to maintain the speed if you dont reduce the thrust to Ýdle and you will end up flying with the landing speed at flare height.

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 1):
I've also herd Re-Fix in a airbus during landing

Never heard anything like that.
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David L
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RE: 50, 40, 30, 20, Retard, Retard....why?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting Wing (Reply 3):
Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 1):
I've also herd Re-Fix in a airbus during landing

Never heard anything like that.

Maybe that was the Captain asking for more coffee?  Smile
 
VC-10
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RE: 50, 40, 30, 20, Retard, Retard....why?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:43 am

The Autothrust system commands IDLE thrust during the flare before touchdown and the FMA and Engine Warning Displey show 'IDLE'

If the A/p is disengaged during the flare before touchdown, the SPEED mode replaces RETARD mode, and the pilot has to reduce thrust manually.

In Automatic landing, the system generates a "RETARD" callout at 10 feet RA, which prompts the pilot to move the thrust levers to IDLE in order to confirm thrust reduction. In manual landing conditions, the system generates this callout as a reminder at 20 feet RA
 
krisyyz
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RE: 50, 40, 30, 20, Retard, Retard....why?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:03 am

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 2):
I've also herd Re-Fix in a airbus during landing



Quoting Wing (Reply 3):
Never heard anything like that.

You can clearly hear RE-FIX after Retard in the A340 clip:

www.a340.net

go to multimedia, landings and d/l the first clip named Shanghai.

Krisyyz
 
henny
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RE: 50, 40, 30, 20, Retard, Retard....why?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 7):
You can clearly hear RE-FIX after Retard in the A340 clip:

Sorry - there's no such callout as "RE-FIX" on any of the Airbus FBW series.

-> What you are hearing is a "RETARD" call being interjected by a "SIX" callout. This routinely happens, especially when the pilot flying floats the aircraft at a very low sink rate in the flare., often with "FIVE" and sometimes even "TWO"!

The RA Voice, or "Roger", operates in real time, using radiowaves to constantly check the undulating ground beneath.

Based on a computer algorithm, it constantly decides which is the best callout to make according to the signals it recieves from the transmitter at the bottom of the aircraft.

In this particular moment, it decided to call "SIX" as the retardation process was activated in the FMA.
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krisyyz
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RE: 50, 40, 30, 20, Retard, Retard....why?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:23 am

Quoting Henny (Reply 8):
What you are hearing is a "RETARD" call being interjected by a "SIX" callout. This routinely happens, especially when the pilot flying floats the aircraft at a very low sink rate in the flare., often with "FIVE" and sometimes even "TWO"!

That makes sense, thanks!

Krisyyz
 
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zeke
Posts: 9919
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RE: 50, 40, 30, 20, Retard, Retard....why?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:02 pm

Quoting Leigh pilgrim (Thread starter):
Why 'call' the flight crew a 'Retard' just before touch down!!!!!,

Its for autolands when you cannot see anything outside.

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 5):
In Automatic landing, the system generates a "RETARD" callout at 10 feet RA, which prompts the pilot to move the thrust levers to IDLE in order to confirm thrust reduction. In manual landing conditions, the system generates this callout as a reminder at 20 feet RA

Are they 320 numbers ?

Quoting Henny (Reply 7):
Sorry - there's no such callout as "RE-FIX" on any of the Airbus FBW series.

Correct
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Mir
Posts: 19107
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: 50, 40, 30, 20, Retard, Retard....why?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:33 pm

The "RETARD" is there as a friendly reminder to the pilot that the Airbus knows better than him/her.  silly 

-Mir
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wing
Posts: 1357
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RE: 50, 40, 30, 20, Retard, Retard....why?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:19 pm

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 6):
You can clearly hear RE-FIX after Retard in the A340 clip:



Quoting Henny (Reply 7):
What you are hearing is a "RETARD" call being interjected by a "SIX" callout. This routinely happens, especially when the pilot flying floats the aircraft at a very low sink rate in the flare., often with "FIVE" and sometimes even "TWO"!

You already got the answer.As I always say what you hear and see may not be always what you think,the best answer is the one always comes from the books or the ones who uses the equipment almost everyday.

By the way the SIX callout is also unique,After more than a year in the 320 cockpit I heard the callout "FOUR" only once,I barely hear the "FIVE" once in every 20 landings or so.
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Oryx
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:25 pm

RE: 50, 40, 30, 20, Retard, Retard....why?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:04 pm

In an older forum it was said that starting with the third RETARD it becomes on noun  Smile.
 
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longhauler
Posts: 4978
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RE: 50, 40, 30, 20, Retard, Retard....why?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:54 pm

If a DH is used on the perf page of the MCDU, then the thrust will be commanded to idle during the flare by the FADEC. (The aircraft assumes it is doing an autoland). The RETARD call is to remind the pilots to match the thrust levers to the FADEC commanded position. In other words, brings the thrust levers to idle, as the engines are already at idle.

If an MDA is used on the perf page of the MCDU, then the thrust levers MUST be brought to idle during the flare by the pilot. (The aircraft assumes it is NOT doing an autoland). The RETARD call then, is to remind the pilot, that under normal circumstances, the thrust levers should be at idle. The RETARD call will continue until they are at idle, or a go-around has been initiated.

In the first example, it is assumed the autopilot is engaged for landing, in the second it would have been disengaged before landing.

Don't even think about what happens with the thrust if you set an MDA, not a DH, but let the aircraft land itself!!!
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
highflyer9790
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:21 am

RE: 50, 40, 30, 20, Retard, Retard....why?

Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:24 am

Simply an audible reminder of what height the aircraft is at and also to take it off of autothrottle and reduce thrust to idle.
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