goinv
Posts: 255
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:16 pm

Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:12 pm

OK - I agree, it's a twist on an idea that has been discussed to death. We've all wondered and speculated whether an airliner buff, with 2 trillion hours behind the joystick of a simulated Boeing 737 could actually land the thing if both captain and first officer were to beome incapacitated.

But what if they were unable to fly the plane and another pilot was on board. This pilot would be Commercial Airliner certified (I believe ATP rating ?) - but not for the type of plane that he/she was in. How much chance do they have of landing it safely?

There could be a not so obvious difference. Pilot certified on B737-300 and hsa to land a B737-700. Same type of plane but vastly different flight decks.

How about some obvious ones...
Saab 340 pilot has to land a B747
B737 pilot has to land an Airbus A321
Airbus A340 pilot has to land an ATR 72

Are we looking at certain death and destruction, or a nice safe landing ?
Be who you are, The world was made to measure for your smile. So Smile.
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:16 pm

Reasonably safe landing. Sure, it won't be a greaser, and they won't know how to fire up the APU (if equipped, some of the jets in your list don't have one), but anyone who can fly a transport-category aircraft obviously has at least some grasp of the concept.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9731
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:28 am

Quoting Goinv (Thread starter):
Saab 340 pilot has to land a B747

Prob not a chance, technology and mass differance too great.

Quoting Goinv (Thread starter):
B737 pilot has to land an Airbus A321

Most prob could be instructed to do an autoland, not a manual landing. A320 much more technology installed over a 737.

Quoting Goinv (Thread starter):
Airbus A340 pilot has to land an ATR 72

Would be okay, going backwards in technology.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
mikkel777
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 1:15 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:34 am

"First ever landing of a FS2002 "pilot" in a real world simulator. It turned out better than most professionals...the young student (18 years old) had no flying experience nor had he been in a simulator before!!!!"

Download the movie at:

http://www.fsaviation.com/~airvideo/a340/1a/a340/a340student.zip

Looks like the 340 can be landed in nice conditions by almost anyone  Wink
 
citationjet
Posts: 2249
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:26 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:45 am

I recently asked this question to the Director of Engineering Flight Test at Cessna Aircraft Company.
He has thousands of hours in business jets. I asked him if he had to land a commercial airliner, what would it be like.

He said it wouldn't be that difficult. The speeds, techniques, etc are about the same. He said it may not be the smoothest landing, but it wouldn't be difficult. This assumes that all of the systems are operational, etc.

If there were system failures, engine out, etc that would make it a little more difficult because he wouldn't be familiar with the non-standard or emergency procedures.

I have been on Functionality and Reliability testing (pre Type Certification) in a business jet where the pilot in command had zero time in the airplane and the copilot had less than 10 hours in the plane, and the plane was on an experimental ticket.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:32 am

Non-type rated pilots land airliners all the time. First officers often aren't typed in the airplane  Smile

Quoting Zeke (Reply 2):
Would be okay, going backwards in technology.

Not necessarily. When you take an airline pilot and put them in something as simple as a Cessna 152 for the first time in years.... without that instructor there, theres a good chance they would've killed themselves.
 
calpilot
Posts: 881
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 1999 5:16 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 2):
Quoting Goinv (Thread starter):
Saab 340 pilot has to land a B747

Prob not a chance, technology and mass differance too great

Funny I've seen a number of turbo-prop Regional Pilots fly the B767, MD80, and B737 sims during interviews for pilot positions do a very good job.

My guess is that they would have no problem with the B747.
 
citationjet
Posts: 2249
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:26 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 5):
When you take an airline pilot and put them in something as simple as a Cessna 152 for the first time in years.... without that instructor there, theres a good chance they would've killed themselves

Agree. I know an AA 767 FO, and now MD-80 Captain. He rented a 172 locally to take up a friend of his. But before he could rent it, he had to go up with an instructor for some touch and goes. He said he forgot how much work it was to fly the little planes. He said he didn't work that hard when he flew 767s transatlantic.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
beechnut
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:27 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:34 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 2):
Prob not a chance, technology and mass differance too great.

The issue with the 747 is the sight picture with the cockpit so high above the ground. It really requires radar altimeter callouts (which I believe are automated on at least the 747-400, don't know about the other marques) to manually land it properly. I should think that getting it down the ILS for a Saab pilot wouldn't be so bad; though he'd have to learn to manage mass and momentum in a big way, always a major issue with the heavies. Some coaching from the ground would help.

Remember that when the mains touch on a 747 the cockpit is still right up there, and if you flare it wrong (like right over the numbers like you would in a Saab) you might be putting the mains down short of the runway!

We're all assuming though, that not only did the two (or three) qualified pilots all die/become incapacitated, but also autoland doesn't work aren't we  Smile

Which of course isn't very likely.

Beech.
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:34 am

Quoting CALPilot (Reply 6):
Funny I've seen a number of turbo-prop Regional Pilots fly the B767, MD80, and B737 sims during interviews for pilot positions do a very good job.

I wasn't going to get involved with this again but silly me here typing away...Yes, that is true even Fedex uses the DC-10 sim (I think, since I flew the 727 23 yrs. ago when I interviewed) but all that is involved is climbs, glides, airspeed control and maybe an entry into a hold. It checks one's instrument scan and overall ability. No one would be expected to be able to make big airspeed/trim changes with configuration changes down to a landing.


Quoting CitationJet (Reply 7):
He said he forgot how much work it was to fly the little planes. He said he didn't work that hard when he flew 767s transatlantic.

I'm sure he was being a little humorous. I flew a little plane a couple of summers ago and realized how my sight picture was forgotten for the little plane. I kept flaring at 30'!! There's certainly a lot of truth to the fact that a single pilot flying IFR has a lot on his shoulders but two pilots in a big jet have a lot going on too just in different ways.

As someone said above, the biggest difference is probably the inertia of the jet being so much diff in a big jet vs. a small plane. What can be changed in a few feet in a small plane may take a couple of 100' in a heavy jet. That's part of the reason behind the stable approach as a high sinkrate on short final may not be stopped. Consider the Fedex MD-11 accident in EWR..the app was good till about the last 100' when a higher sinkrate was established and the rest is history. .
 
flight152
Posts: 3211
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:34 am

A320 much more technology installed over a 737.

You're kidding, right? A current generation 737 is very comparable to a A230.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9731
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:49 am

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 4):
He said it wouldn't be that difficult. The speeds, techniques, etc are about the same. He said it may not be the smoothest landing, but it wouldn't be difficult.

I would disagree, flying and landing is not the same, the question related to landing. On larger aircraft an actual technique is used for landing.

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 5):
Non-type rated pilots land airliners all the time. First officers often aren't typed in the airplane

By ICAO rules they should be, I think this hole is changing for charter flights in the USA also. On airliners the FO would have to be type rated.

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 5):
Not necessarily. When you take an airline pilot and put them in something as simple as a Cessna 152 for the first time in years.... without that instructor there, theres a good chance they would've killed themselves.

The large change in flare height is the only thing I have to force myself to do, apart from thinking its normal to have a very poor acceleration rate.

Quoting CALPilot (Reply 6):
Funny I've seen a number of turbo-prop Regional Pilots fly the B767, MD80, and B737 sims during interviews for pilot positions do a very good job.

Do they land the aircraft, or fly on instruments ?

Quoting BeechNut (Reply 8):
The issue with the 747 is the sight picture with the cockpit so high above the ground. It really requires radar altimeter callouts (which I believe are automated on at least the 747-400, don't know about the other marques) to manually land it properly. I should think that getting it down the ILS for a Saab pilot wouldn't be so bad; though he'd have to learn to manage mass and momentum in a big way, always a major issue with the heavies. Some coaching from the ground would help.

Best chance would be to talk through an autoland.

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 10):
You're kidding, right? A current generation 737 is very comparable to a A230.

No I am not kidding, A320s been capable of single engine cat 3 autolands for I guess 20+ years, pretty sure the first boeing to do that was the 777 (and no the 747 does not do nice single engine autolands). 737NG not capable of it either.

It takes a little getting used to to go from yoke to sidestick, could talk through a 737 pilot how to program the autopilot to do an autoland, however it would not be not be possible without training to work out how to do it unassisted.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
seanp11
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:16 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:06 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 11):
737NG not capable of it either.

http://www.b737.org.uk/glareshield.htm
Scroll down to the bottom. All NGs from line #1278 (feb 2003) on have the rockwell collins enhanced digital flight control system, which is capable of cat IIIb autoland, and can perform an engine out landing due to the addition of a rudder servo.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9731
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:24 am

Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 12):
Scroll down to the bottom

Looking at the limitations on the same site http://www.b737.org.uk/limitations.htm

Quote:
Autoland capability may only be used with flaps 30 or 40 and both engines operative.

I am not 737 rated, this is consistant with what I have been told in the past.

320 onwards are capable of doing a single engine RNAV/NPA down to the runway with autopilot on, however its an FCOM limitation that this cannot be done.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
calpilot
Posts: 881
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 1999 5:16 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:25 am

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 9):
I wasn't going to get involved with this again but silly me here typing away...Yes, that is true even Fedex uses the DC-10 sim (I think, since I flew the 727 23 yrs. ago when I interviewed) but all that is involved is climbs, glides, airspeed control and maybe an entry into a hold. It checks one's instrument scan and overall ability. No one would be expected to be able to make big airspeed/trim changes with configuration changes down to a landing.

The checking part of the sim in a interview ride, yes is just flying the airplane. But, I have seen young men/women do fine landing the jet for fun with some short info.
 
DeltaGuy
Posts: 3965
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:25 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:35 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 11):
By ICAO rules they should be, I think this hole is changing for charter flights in the USA also. On airliners the FO would have to be type rated.

Not at all...for example, the only pilots type rated on the aircraft at DL are pilots flying 757 and larger equipment...so the 737 and MD-88 pilots are flying around without a type rating. Doesn't make a bit of difference in the long run, they will still satisfy the proficiency requirements.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:12 pm

Quoting Calpilot (Reply 14):
I have seen young men/women do fine landing the jet for fun with some short info.

Not to continue the point too much but I've also seen sim maint. guys come into the sim, lean over my shoulder, grab the yoke with one hand and fly a perfect ILS just to check out and minor glitch that they fixed and yet they couldn't fly the jet if they had to.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9731
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:37 pm

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 15):
Not at all...for example, the only pilots type rated on the aircraft at DL are pilots flying 757 and larger equipment...so the 737 and MD-88 pilots are flying around without a type rating. Doesn't make a bit of difference in the long run, they will still satisfy the proficiency requirements.

How is this possible ? Are they all flying around illegally non-ICAO ? Minimum crew on both types is two pilots.

From Annex 1 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation - Personnel Licensing

2.1.3.2 Type ratings shall be established for:

a) each type of aircraft certificated for operation with a
minimum crew of at least two pilots;


b) each type of helicopter certificated for single-pilot
operation except where a class rating has been issued
under 2.1.3.1.1; and

c) any type of aircraft whenever considered necessary by
the Licensing Authority.

2.1.3.3 When an applicant demonstrates skill and knowledge
for the initial issue of a pilot licence, the category and the
ratings appropriate to the class or type of aircraft used in the
demonstration shall be entered on the licence.

2.1.4 Circumstances in which class
and type ratings are required

2.1.4.1 A Contracting State having issued a pilot licence
shall not permit the holder of such licence to act either as pilot in-
command or as co-pilot
of an aeroplane or helicopter unless
the holder has received authorization as follows:
a) the appropriate class rating specified in 2.1.3.1; or
b) a type rating when required in accordance with the
provisions of 2.1.3.2.


2.1.4.1.1 When a type rating is issued limiting the
privileges to act as co-pilot, or limiting the privileges to act as
pilot only during the cruise phase of the flight, such limitation
shall be endorsed on the rating.

2.1.4.2 For the purpose of training, testing, or specific
special purpose non-revenue, non-passenger carrying flights,
special authorization may be provided in writing to the licence
holder by the Licensing Authority in place of issuing the class
or type rating in accordance with 2.1.4.1. This authorization
shall be limited in validity to the time needed to complete the
specific flight.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
seanp11
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:16 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:04 pm

I'd think that flying under FAA regs domestically would allow this.
FAR part 61.31

Quote:
Type ratings required. A person who acts as a pilot in command of any of the following aircraft must hold a type rating for that aircraft:

It appears that, according to the FAA, its ok to fly without a type rating, as long as the PIC holds the proper type rating.
 
sccutler
Posts: 5555
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:27 pm

Quoting CALPilot (Reply 6):
Funny I've seen a number of turbo-prop Regional Pilots fly the B767, MD80, and B737 sims during interviews for pilot positions do a very good job.

We all know that the full-motion sim is not the same thing as the airplane, but it is close enough to count as a legally-accepted alternative.

The piloting principles remain the same and, given an adequate time to familiarize oneself with the essentials (speeds, configurations), pilots with reasonably significant experience in complex aircraft would have a decent shot at a successful landing (might not be one you'd enjoy).

When I flew a full-motion 737-300 sim, I was able to do a tolerable job of flying it, and landed without much difficulty (toughest part being holding power so far into the approach). My experience is strictly single-engined, high-performance, complex, instrument.

YMMV.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
Posts: 3960
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:18 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:28 pm

We just recently started giving SIC types to our FO's.


Things are a bit different in the US, Zeke.

I'm not going to jump in on the rest of the stuff.... I have no doubt that I could jump into a bus or boeing (jumpseated in most models) and at least get the thing on the ground... might crack the runway, but it would be survivable. Stick and rudder is stick and rudder...
Chicks dig winglets.
 
mikkel777
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 1:15 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:42 pm

Landing a jet-sim is not difficult at all. Back when I was a private pilot, I got to try a level-C full motion MD80 sim, the old gauges type. Did 3 sucessfull patterns without autopilot, and using the autothrottle only on downwind. Had a guy in the seat next to me, who put out flaps and gear on my commands. I didn't know the ref speeds, but guesstimated them close enough. All landings were survivable for both aircraft and pax.

If you can handfly that thing in the pattern, flying a 320 or 737 sim with autopilot and autothrottle on an ILS until short final should be easier.
 
lorm
Posts: 377
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 4:31 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:29 pm

Did the 744 full motion sim at the UA TK Denver Training Center in Nov 2004 during the AVSIM.com conference. Great time, surprised myself on the results. SFO was the sim setup and did 3 visual and 1 ILS / take-offs on 28L/R, plus 1 visual touch and go on 28L and 1 visual 19L landing. 5 landings within the TDZ, and the last one before I left I did a 1 hop bounce go figure!  sigh . All my paterns were sucessful - never had to reset any part of the sim!  Smile

VREF was 163 knots and 630k lbs landing weight was the setup during the session with calm winds from 280. Autothrottle from climb thrust altitude to DH on the first couple with just on final on the last two. My second seat was UA Captain Kirk Triplett who was extremely friendly and accomidating did the flaps, gear (wish I remembered, always wanted to pull the gear handle sigh !), and radios. Didn't bother to use the autopilot, was having too much fun and wish I reserved more time, I could have stayed there all night.....
-L
Brick Windows
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9731
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:08 pm

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 20):
I'm not going to jump in on the rest of the stuff.... I have no doubt that I could jump into a bus or boeing (jumpseated in most models) and at least get the thing on the ground... might crack the runway, but it would be survivable. Stick and rudder is stick and rudder...

I agree, however on the airbus its the programming for the landing that need to be done right otherwise it will not slow down, nor will it tune the ILS.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:09 pm

Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 18):
It appears that, according to the FAA, its ok to fly without a type rating, as long as the PIC holds the proper type rating.

That's correct . Here we don't type F/Os in the 727 or DC-10 but everyone gets typed in the MD-11 (because they fly as RFO too). I don't know whether Airbus F/Os get a type or not, I doubt it.

Quoting Zeke (Reply 23):
however on the airbus its the programming for the landing that need to be done right otherwise it will not slow down, nor will it tune the ILS.

That's true for all the FMS generation jets
 
citationjet
Posts: 2249
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:26 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:10 am

Quoting SCCutler (Reply 19):
We all know that the full-motion sim is not the same thing as the airplane, but it is close enough to count as a legally-accepted alternative.

The piloting principles remain the same and, given an adequate time to familiarize oneself with the essentials (speeds, configurations), pilots with reasonably significant experience in complex aircraft would have a decent shot at a successful landing (might not be one you'd enjoy).

Regarding the pilot I discussed in Reply #7 above, he was an F-16 pilot before being hired by AA. He took MD-80 simulator training at AA. The first time he landed any airplane bigger than an F-16 was when he landed an AA MD-80 (with an instructor pilot in the left seat) on a revenue flight with 130 passengers on board.

This same AA pilot years later became a FO on the 767/757. At one time when I talked to him he was flying FO on the 767. I asked him how flying the 767 compared to flying the 757. He said that he had never flown a 757, in fact he had never stepped foot inside a 757 aircraft even as a passenger, and he was a qualified FO on the 757.

.
.

[Edited 2006-02-19 16:22:51]
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 25):
he was an F-16 pilot before being hired by AA

There in lies the diff. Having come a high performance jet he was already familiar with swept wing jet characteristics and high app .speeds.

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 25):
The first time he landed any airplane bigger than an F-16 was when he landed an AA MD-80 (with an instructor pilot in the left seat) on a revenue flight with 130 passengers on board.

True but he did have a number of sim sessions that made that first "real" landing anticlimatic. And that's the way it works. Your first real landing is on a revenue flight with an LCA in the left seat.
 
citationjet
Posts: 2249
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:26 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:34 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 11):
I would disagree, flying and landing is not the same, the question related to landing. On larger aircraft an actual technique is used for landing.

And my Reply #4 related to landing.
I agree that the original question related to landing. His answer also applied to landings. He said that the same landing technique is used for a 30,000 lb Citation X that is used for a commercial airliner.

[Edited 2006-02-19 16:37:23]
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:20 am

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 27):
He said that the same landing technique is used for a 30,000 lb Citation X that is used for a commercial airliner.

Right you are. However as I posted earlier the BIG diff between the two is sight picture on app and ldg and the diff in inertia management. If you're used to a small plane or corp. jet and the pilot's butt sits 3' off the ground and you find yourself in a 747/MD-11/DC-10/A340,etc. sitting 25' or more off the ground you will smack the runway waaay before you think you're even close. You might even hear 50, 40, 30, 10, but it won't relate to your eyeballs untill you're on your way down from the first bounce. Then if you're lucky and the jet doesn't come down a little yawed on one gear you might have a chance. As far as something like a Dc-9 or 737 you'll have a MUCH better shot at it. My .02cts....CC
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17049
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting Mikkel777 (Reply 3):
"First ever landing of a FS2002 "pilot" in a real world simulator. It turned out better than most professionals...the young student (18 years old) had no flying experience nor had he been in a simulator before!!!!"

Even I've done that... But then again I didn't have to deal with radios, navigation, screaming pax, malfunctions. It's not all in the flying itself.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
 
mikkel777
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 1:15 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:53 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 29):
But then again I didn't have to deal with radios, navigation, screaming pax, malfunctions. It's not all in the flying itself.

I think this thread is more about stick'n rudder handling of different aircraft, and how demanding it is to fly something different.
But of course I agree, handflying the airplane is one thing, doing all the rest is another. Anyway, if you are flying a 737, doing all that should not be a big step up when transitioning to a 747. Inertia and visual references is.
 
miller22
Posts: 594
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 4:48 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:11 am

The Saab pilot would have no problem with the 747. Its the 747 pilot in the saab, I'd be worried about.
 
A319XFW
Posts: 1519
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:41 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:59 am

When the A380 visited Dubai for the airshow, on one flight EK pilots were flying with it.
Apparently a few of them had never even flown an Airbus before (they must have been 777 pilots) and everyone did touch-and-goes with it. So it is possible.
 
doug_or
Posts: 3118
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 9:55 am

RE: Non Type Rated Pilot Landing An Aircraft?

Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:25 am

I gave tours to alumni a few years ago and babysat them as they went back to the 727 sim. Every pilot currently operating an EFIS plane set off the GPWS. The only guy in there who flew a good approach was the mechanic who said he sometimes rents a 150 on the weekend. go fig.
When in doubt, one B pump off

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests