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Jetlagged
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747-400 Nosewheel Steering

Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:11 am

Is there anything to prevent the nosewheel steering operating with no forward speed on the 747-400? I searched the forum but couldn't find the answer anywhere.
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fr8mech
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RE: 747-400 Nosewheel Steering

Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:20 am

Why would you want to prevent the nose wheel steering from operating? As far as I know, no, the nose gear steering system will operate just fine with the aircraft stopped.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
SFOMB67
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RE: 747-400 Nosewheel Steering

Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:56 pm

I don't believe any aircraft requires forward speed to operate the N/G steering. Will it skuff the tires? Probably, a little. I've seen greased sheets under the N/G tires in hangers during steering operation for maint. when the aircraft is not jacked.
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VC-10
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RE: 747-400 Nosewheel Steering

Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:28 pm

Quoting Jetlagged (Thread starter):
Is there anything to prevent the nosewheel steering operating with no forward speed on the 747-400? I searched the forum but couldn't find the answer anywhere.

No.
 
pilotpip
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RE: 747-400 Nosewheel Steering

Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:59 pm

Had a 727 recently move the nose gear back and forth to dislodge a couple chocks that a newbie put right under the tires and got lodged really good after making the aircraft about 50,000 pounds heavier than when we started with it. That didn't seem to cause any problems.
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bri2k1
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RE: 747-400 Nosewheel Steering

Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:20 pm

I have actually seen this. It's the normal behavior on MS Flight Simulator.
Position and hold
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: 747-400 Nosewheel Steering

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:04 pm

Quoting Bri2k1 (Reply 5):
I have actually seen this. It's the normal behavior on MS Flight Simulator.

 Yeah sure


Jan
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Sinlock
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RE: 747-400 Nosewheel Steering

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:49 am

Quoting Jetlagged (Thread starter):
Is there anything to prevent the nosewheel steering operating with no forward speed on the 747-400?

Sure, put the steering by-pass pin in. But then the N/G wouldn't turn at any speed.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: 747-400 Nosewheel Steering

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:00 am

Or you switch off hydraulics ( I forgot which system was powering the nose gear steering, I think #4 or #2)

Jan
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JAGflyer
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RE: 747-400 Nosewheel Steering

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:17 am

Quoting Bri2k1 (Reply 5):

It doesn't turn when the A/C is stopped but who compares FS to real life? lol
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Matt72033
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RE: 747-400 Nosewheel Steering

Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:25 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 8):
I think #4 or #2)

think its number 1.....definately sys 1 or 4!

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 4):
Had a 727 recently move the nose gear back and forth to dislodge a couple chocks that a newbie put right under the tires and got lodged really good after making the aircraft about 50,000 pounds heavier than when we started with it. That didn't seem to cause any problems.

we have to be careful when doing our pushbacks! lately the tug crew have become very efficient in chocking the nosewheel whilst they disconnect the tow bar, if you pull out the bypass pin too quickly, before they remove the chock and the nosewheel isn't quite straight, it'll jam up a treat!
 
bri2k1
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RE: 747-400 Nosewheel Steering

Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:09 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 6):
Yeah sure



Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 9):
It doesn't turn when the A/C is stopped but who compares FS to real life? lol

Exactly my point.
Position and hold
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: 747-400 Nosewheel Steering

Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:57 am

Thanks everyone. I knew the 747-200 tiller would turn regardless of speed, and assumed the 747-400 would too, but I couldn't be sure (no -400 data at the site I am at right now). The systems are very similar except for body gear steering arming, which is automatic on the 747-400, manual on the Classic.

Quoting Bri2k1 (Reply 5):
I have actually seen this. It's the normal behavior on MS Flight Simulator.

You are very close to why I asked this. Although I spend my working days around training simulators, one of my hobbies is MS Flightsim (sad but true). A certain FS9 747-400 addon deliberately inhibits nosewheel steering when stationary. I questioned this and was told "it's correct, we checked". I expect they asked a pilot  Wink. (Apologies to the majority, but a few pilots seem to think that just because you shouldn't do something, it can't actually be done!).

A simulator should do what the aircraft does, not what the procedure tells the pilot to do, in case the procedure isn't followed properly.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
 
Matt72033
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RE: 747-400 Nosewheel Steering

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:31 pm

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 10):
think its number 1.....definately sys 1 or 4!

just checked, both nose and body gear steering is on hydraulic system 1
 
bri2k1
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RE: 747-400 Nosewheel Steering

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:17 am

Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 12):
A certain FS9 747-400 addon deliberately inhibits nosewheel steering when stationary.

My current personal copy is version 2004, and this is standard behavior on all included aircraft, including the single-engine Cessnas! I was fortunate enough at one time to have flown all the full-motion simulators in the United fleet, and I can confirm both tiller- and pedal-commanded steering works in the simulators exactly as it does on the real bird. I spent a lot of time trying to powerback a 777 in the simulator; I was never successful though.
Position and hold
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: 747-400 Nosewheel Steering

Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:14 pm

Quoting Bri2k1 (Reply 14):
I spent a lot of time trying to powerback a 777 in the simulator; I was never successful though.

That's typical of simulators of aircraft with big fan engines. Data isn't produced to accurately model reverse thrust with little or no forward speed. There's no real training value in it after all.

In reality things may be different. Allegedly a lightly loaded 747 can in fact power back, but in a simulator it is impossible, unless someone tweaks the reverse thrust data.
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