kl692
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Is This Safe? YYZ

Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:31 am

I got off work at 5:30pm EST and just as I walk outside, I saw a plane, a possible 737 flying soooo low, I don't recall seeing a plane flyin so low before and not even 30 secounds later there was another one behind it and they both were heading 090. I was just wondering if this is safe and was there a problem at YYZ today or delays. I live in Toronto. about 30kms from the airport
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Starlionblue
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:34 am

How low is "low"? Seriously, if you saw two aircraft flying on the same route at the same altitude it's very unlikely both were doing something wrong.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
kl692
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:37 am

they were very low, like I said I see them all the time but this time it was very low. I was thinking maybe the first one missed it's approach and it have to do a round about but I was shock to see the 2nd one behind it
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David L
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:42 am

Maybe the second one was the "Feds". Did it have a flashing blue light?
 
MDorBust
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:30 am

Quoting David L (Reply 3):
Maybe the second one was the "Feds". Did it have a flashing blue light?

oh... you jest..



And now you know the real reason it's jetblue
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HAWK21M
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:40 pm

If it was one low flying Aircraft...Maybe something abnormal.If Two were flying lower than normal,it could be that you just felt that way.
Was there any Distruption at the Airport at the time.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
kl692
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:52 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 5):
Was there any Distruption at the Airport at the time.

that is what I am trying to find out if there was a problem at YYZ.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 5):
it could be that you just felt that way.

nope being watching birds (planes) for long time and I know they look weird.
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David L
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:48 am

Quoting Kl692 (Reply 6):
nope being watching birds (planes) for long time and I know they look weird.

I have some sympathy. A few years ago a work colleague came back from lunch and told me she'd seen an airliner circling "low" over Edinburgh city centre and wondered if I knew why. I asked on the Civil Aviation forum and was inundated by responses from all corners of the globe, by people who've never even been to Edinburgh, telling me "it's normal".  sarcastic 

This colleague wasn't an avid enthusiast but she always noticed things like number and position of engines, colour scheme, etc., which most people don't, and she was besotted with Concorde. If she says it was "low", I believe her. Airliners do not "normally" circle low over Edinburgh! But, whatever the reason, it never became newsworthy.
 
kaddyuk
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:20 am

Quoting David L (Reply 7):
If she says it was "low", I believe her

I've been told about similar circumstances... someone i know had one of the fulers ask if there was something wrong with the landing gear... as it was sitting rather low on one side... the engineer retorted back "You dont know what you're talking about... its fine". Later, the Engineer went back and checked... turned out it was outside its limits and needed topping up with nitrogen...

If you ignore the small voices enough... they'll come and bite you on the arse some day...

[Edited 2006-04-04 18:26:14]
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
SlamClick
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting Kl692 (Thread starter):
wondering if this is safe

Safe = not hitting the ground.

Unsafe = hitting the ground.

The best thing is that this test can be conducted with no prior training.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
David L
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:54 am

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 8):
If you ignore the small voices enough... they'll come and bite you on the arse some day...

Fair point. The thing is, neither of us suggested there was any kind of emergency. We were just curious about something unusual but I still got my head chewed off!

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 9):
Safe = not hitting the ground.

Unsafe = hitting the ground.

I've made a note of that. Thanks.  Smile
 
kl692
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:23 am

Quoting David L (Reply 10):
Quoting SlamClick (Reply 9):
Safe = not hitting the ground.

Unsafe = hitting the ground.

I've made a note of that. Thanks.

me too
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SlamClick
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:55 am

Glad you guys found my wisdom-born-of-experience useful.

Just a little disappointed to think that today's flight instructors neglect the basics like that.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
David L
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 12):
Just a little disappointed to think that today's flight instructors neglect the basics like that.

 biggrin 
 
bri2k1
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:24 pm

I guess it depends on how you define safe. The FAA has certain minimum seperation criteria, and based on the description here, they were not exceeded. The FAA also has a good graphic available online to help see the difference between various aircraft when observed from a distance. A 747 and a C-172 appear to look exactly the same size when at different relative observation points. The observer on the ground must realize (as those in the sky have to accept) that their eyes might play tricks on them from time to time. It may have been abnormally close to the ground, but not as the result of an unsafe situation, or even an abnormal condition. Maybe a runway was closed at the last minute due to debris or wildlife, and both planes had to make the published missed approach course, which was unfamiliar to the observer. Maybe both planes suffered from low-level wind shear and nearly crashed. No amount of discussion on the Internet is likely to resolve it.
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777wt
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:15 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 4):
oh... you jest..



And now you know the real reason it's jetblue

Looks like New York State Troopers. They have a purple hat band and tie  Wink

Oh yeah NY police don't use blue flashing lights, they use red  Smile
 
David L
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:47 am

Quoting 777WT (Reply 15):
Oh yeah NY police don't use blue flashing lights, they use red

Wot-evuh.  Smile

But what about in Toronto?
 
YYZatcboy
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:34 am

We have red and white flashing lights  Smile

If this is when there were Tstorms in the area it is because they were using an unusual approach. (over YYZ then right and right for the 15 L/R ILS)
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pilotaydin
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:16 am

remember in die hard, when the bad guy drops the glideslope signal short of the runway and the british plane crashes....ill be you it was that  Wink
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
David L
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:39 am

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 17):
We have red and white flashing lights

OK, OK... a flashing red light.  boxedin   Smile
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:41 am

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 18):
remember in die hard, when the bad guy drops the glideslope signal short of the runway and the british plane crashes....ill be you it was that

It was Irish  Wink And you knew it would crash because Chief O'Brien can't handle complex machinery. He only knows how to move the levers forward and back.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:13 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 20):

If only John Mclain had got the lights working in time  Smile

BTW. How low would be "LOW".
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
YYZatcboy
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:05 pm

Quoting Bri2k1 (Reply 14):
he FAA also has a good graphic available online to help see the difference between various aircraft when observed from a distance.

Mind posting a link? I'd like to see that.

Joe
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David L
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:11 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 21):
How low would be "LOW".

"Really low".  biggrin  (I hate answers like that, too!)
 
MDorBust
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:27 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 21):
BTW. How low would be "LOW".

Anything above the ground is really low.

Anything under ground is too low.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
bri2k1
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:26 pm

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 22):

Mind posting a link? I'd like to see that.

Sure. It's at

http://www.faasafety.gov/notices/2004-Oct/21_A-C_visability_card.pdf
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kl692
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:45 pm

Quoting David L (Reply 23):
"Really low". (I hate answers like that, too!)

Sorry man, didn't mean to bubble you up. I can say is that it very low as I have said before I have seen planes at different flight levels but this time this two planes were very low and very close to each other too for that flight level. As of a fact I have waitted in the last three days at the same place at the same time for over an hour to see if I will at least see plane flying by at that heading and nothing at all. So I am pretty sure something was up. Maybe it was due to weather as YYZatcboy said cause it was a raining that day but I don't know about T-storms.
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David L
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:49 am

Quoting Kl692 (Reply 26):
Quoting David L (Reply 23):
"Really low". (I hate answers like that, too!)

Sorry man, didn't mean to bubble you up.

I wasn't referring to your post. I mean I hate it when the conversation goes like this:

"It was low"
"How low?"
"Really low"
"You'll need to be more specific"
"OK, it was really, really low".

I provided the unhelpful comment, not you.  Smile
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:59 am

Quoting Kl692 (Reply 26):
Maybe it was due to weather as YYZatcboy said cause it was a raining that day but I don't know about T-storms.

How was the Visability around that time.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
kl692
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:51 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 28):

How was the Visability around that time.
regds
MEL

well it was a raining day and so the sky was a bit dark and as far as the height goes, let just say about 25 floor building. I don't tall that will be in feets.
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bri2k1
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:02 am

Quoting Kl692 (Reply 26):
As of a fact



Quoting Kl692 (Reply 26):
cause it was a raining that day



Quoting Kl692 (Reply 29):
t was a raining day



Quoting Kl692 (Reply 29):
I don't tall that will be in feets

You weren't drinking when you saw these low-flying planes, were you?  Wink

I'm just kidding. But, I'll say it again, sometimes our eyes play tricks. Think about how much larger the moon looks when it's very near the horizon compared to directly overhead. The secret is in having a visual reference to compare with it. Maybe flying beneath low clouds, the planes appeared bigger than normal, and maybe their sound reflected downwards off the clouds making them sound louder than usual, and it added up to making them seem like they were flying lower than usual. It's a long shot, and probably wrong, but it's as close to a guess as you're going to be able to get, I'm afraid.
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kl692
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RE: Is This Safe? YYZ

Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:02 am

Quoting Bri2k1 (Reply 30):
You weren't drinking when you saw these low-flying planes, were you?

I wish I was drunk, but drinking is not my thing though
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