leothedog
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Airliner Maintenance

Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:15 am

I've always wondered: How and when does maintenance get performed on a plane? I'll use SW as an example of what I'm asking. Generally speaking, SW planes are flying all day long. First flight is around 6:00 am, and last flight lands at 11:00. The plane then sits at the gate until the next morning. Aloha is another good example. Their 737s are flying across the Pacific every day. When do they get looked at just to make sure everything is good?

How and when do any of the systems get looked at? Is there a schedule? Perhaps after so many hours in the air? Does anyone "Check under the hood? Check the oil level?, ect". Also, when does a plane go in for a "C" check, or "D" check? Also, what is the difference?

I guess what I'm saying is I realize today's jetliners are so very reliable, however, somebody, sometime has to take a look and make sure everything is the way it's supposed to be. When and how does this take place? And again, I ask not just for SW, but for any and every airline.
I've got things to see and people to do.
 
commavia
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:35 am

A good explanation from American Airlines' website is avaiable here (scroll to bottom of page).
 
leothedog
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:45 am

Commavia,
Thanks for the link. Great information.
I've got things to see and people to do.
 
MrMcCoy
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:48 am

That's a very good explanation of the ABC's. Good link.
It only takes five years to go from rumor to standard operating procedure.
 
YYZYYT
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:40 am

This topic seems perfect for Tech/ops...

In fact there is a huge amount of already there, directly or indirectly:

discussion of different types of checks, which goes into scheduling issues: RE: Can Someone Please Explain A, B, C, And D Checks (by Whiskeyflyer Oct 8 2004 in Tech Ops)#ID100259

comparison of civil and military maintenance (ditto): RE: Is Civil Or Mil More Stringent With Maintanence? (by Chdmcmanus Apr 27 2004 in Tech Ops)#ID87635

and maintenance routines generally:
Daily Maintenance (by AgnusBymaster Sep 9 2002 in Tech Ops)#ID47764
RE: Mechanics Help (by Boomer Dec 23 2000 in Tech Ops)#ID6843
RE: Brief Explanation Of Aircraft Maintenance (by Starlionblue Mar 10 2006 in Tech Ops)#ID147894

If you are interested in these things, tech / ops can be a black hole for your free time... heh heh.
 
YYZYYT
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 4):
This topic seems perfect for Tech/ops...

I'm glad my opinion carries such weight around here!  Wink
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:47 pm

Nice link.
Scheduled Mx is carried out a fixed time intervals...Both Calender based & Flt hrs based.The Schedule specifies what check is to be carried out.
Its the Unscheduled Mx that causes a lot of Delays  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
wrighbrothers
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:53 pm

For BA.They do a transit check beofre ever flight with a pilot and engineer, they do do verious checks, all the way up to a major overhaul, which takes 20-25 days and is done about every 5 years.
There is a sort of saying, Fly by day and fix by night.

Wrighbrothers
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Matt72033
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:53 am

[quote=]The "A" check is more detailed than the "PS" check. "A" checks are performed roughly once a week (approximately 60 flight hours). The "A" check is performed at one of 40 stations around American’s system. It averages 10 - 20 man-hours.[/quote]
10-20 man hours? seems very short to me?
do you think they maybe talking hours as opposed to man hours?
 
AvionicMech
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:11 am

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 8):
10-20 man hours? seems very short to me?
do you think they maybe talking hours as opposed to man hours?

Matt, I think the 10-20 man hours is correct. We have adopted a similar system on our 737 aircraft, both the -800's and Classics's here at BY. What happens is the task cards are broken down in small packages, so one of these 'A' checks may only have the gear lube task card and that's it, then the next 'A' check might have the wing lube cards etc. This way the aircraft does not need extended periods on the ground as it would for a bigger 'A' check, with say 2 month intervals.

The only trouble with doing it this way is that you need larger numbers of people rather than just getting a few people who are off shift in on overtime to cover the checks which might be at that base every couple of weeks or so.
 
Matt72033
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:18 am

Quoting AvionicMech (Reply 9):

ah ok......we do A checks on our aircraft every 6-8 weeks and they last about 24 hours....give or take!

thats with the whole hangar working on it!
 
AvionicMech
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:22 am

Quoting Matt72033 (Reply 10):
ah ok......we do A checks on our aircraft every 6-8 weeks and they last about 24 hours....give or take!

thats with the whole hangar working on it!

Thats pretty much the way we do it on our 757/767 fleet but it is usually only in the hangar for about 10 hours overnight then ferries back to it's base in the morning.
 
fr8mech
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:32 am

What American calls an A check, we call a Periodic Service. What they call a Periodic Service, we call an Arrival Service. Our PS Checks run 7 - 20 man hours, depending on airframe.

Same terminology, different workscope. Each operator generates its own program, which is approved by the manufacturer and the FAA (or other regulatory body).
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:52 am

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 7):
There is a sort of saying, Fly by day and fix by night.

For Freighters out here its Fly by Night & Fix in Day  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
n685fe
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:33 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 13):
For Freighters out here its Fly by Night & Fix in Day

Not for the utilization we get out of our a/c. If you can't MEL or fix it during the hub turn, you down the a/c and cover with a spare or add a stop to an existing flight. We generally only have 2-4 hrs grnd time at night then they are off. When they arrive at their destination, they turn the a/c in a couple of hours, then back to the hub for another 2-4 hr stay. The greatest amount of grnd for most a/c is over the weekend, Sun-Mon.
psp. lead by example
 
wrighbrothers
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:16 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 13):
For Freighters out here its Fly by Night & Fix in Day
regds
MEL

I bet they are popular to work on  Smile

Wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:39 am

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 15):
I bet they are popular to work on

They sure are......Enter the Main deck & theres lots of room  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
wrighbrothers
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:07 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
They sure are......Enter the Main deck & theres lots of room

Haha, at least you don't have to remove the seats and reading lights, air nozzles, carpet etc like comercial aircrafts. Sounds pretty good  Smile

Wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:34 pm

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 17):

Chapter 25 is almost not present.A part of Chapter 38 too.  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
amtrosie
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting Leothedog (Thread starter):
How and when do any of the systems get looked at?

There-in lies the crux of the aircraft maintenance job. OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND. You will not see this done because a VAST!!! majority of airliner (and others) maintenance is done in the dark of night. Most of the posters on this sight work midnights. They work tired and sleep deprived more often than not. The job requirerments are tough- on personal, social, and recreational lives. This is huge reason why so many are leaving the industry. REMEMBER: "if you got there, thank the mechanic".
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:36 am

Quoting Amtrosie (Reply 19):
There-in lies the crux of the aircraft maintenance job. OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND. You will not see this done because a VAST!!! majority of airliner (and others) maintenance is done in the dark of night. Most of the posters on this sight work midnights. They work tired and sleep deprived more often than not. The job requirerments are tough- on personal, social, and recreational lives. This is huge reason why so many are leaving the industry. REMEMBER: "if you got there, thank the mechanic".

Don't forget the Studies required & the lack of time.Its a balance between Nights,Studies,Rest & Family life priority wise  Smile
But if you love the Field,You'll fight on as long as you can.  bigthumbsup 

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
LMP737
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:49 am

Quoting Amtrosie (Reply 19):
There-in lies the crux of the aircraft maintenance job. OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND. You will not see this done because a VAST!!! majority of airliner (and others) maintenance is done in the dark of night. Most of the posters on this sight work midnights. They work tired and sleep deprived more often than not. The job requirerments are tough- on personal, social, and recreational lives. This is huge reason why so many are leaving the industry. REMEMBER: "if you got there, thank the mechanic".

Oh so very true. By the end of my work week I'm exhausted. My first day off is spent recovering from work. It's a simple fact that humans are not nocturnal creatures and are not meant to be up all night. On days I work I'm lucky to get six hours sleep during the day. One thing I've noticed that after a certain hour during the night I might as well forget about troubleshoting. It's hard enough just staying awake let alone figuring out a probllem.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:56 am

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 21):
Quoting Amtrosie (Reply 19):
There-in lies the crux of the aircraft maintenance job. OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND. You will not see this done because a VAST!!! majority of airliner (and others) maintenance is done in the dark of night. Most of the posters on this sight work midnights. They work tired and sleep deprived more often than not. The job requirerments are tough- on personal, social, and recreational lives. This is huge reason why so many are leaving the industry. REMEMBER: "if you got there, thank the mechanic".

Oh so very true. By the end of my work week I'm exhausted. My first day off is spent recovering from work. It's a simple fact that humans are not nocturnal creatures and are not meant to be up all night. On days I work I'm lucky to get six hours sleep during the day. One thing I've noticed that after a certain hour during the night I might as well forget about troubleshoting. It's hard enough just staying awake let alone figuring out a probllem.

I have worked almost exclusively night shift for 5 years at my old job, which suited me fine, since I'm rather a night owl. But still, with my present job (I'm working 12 hour shifts, 5 days 7am to 7 pm, 5 days off, 5 night 7 pm to 7 am, 5 days off...) on my first day off I'm totally exhausted and tend to sleep for almost the whole day. Worst is the conversion from nights to days, the other way around is not so bad.
The exhausting thing is not so much the actual work on the aircraft (though, being the only B1 Engineer on shift lets me do practically all troubleshooting and most non-routine repairs, routine jobs I can delegate to the Cat A mechanic and the unlicenced mechanics), but the responsibility, not just towards airworthiness requirements, but also towards the airline. In the end I'm responsible for any delay and I also have to make sure that my T/S is spot on or I'll get into trouble for wasting money for unnecessary spares. Add to this that other departments like to use maintenance to dump delays on, even if we haven't been involved at all. Example: You've got a plane with an APU on MEL. The plane needs an airstarter. The ground handling company, which supplies the air starter doesn't get it's act together and causes a delay. Still they write the delay on us and I'll have to write a report to get it off our necks. The same happened with a pilot who didn't read his operations manual and didn't know how to operate the FMC, typical finger trouble. He blamed the resulting delay on us.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:03 am

If you rest well after a Night shift,things are easier on the next night.Else it can be very Taxing Physically.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Okie
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Sun Apr 30, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 22):
Add to this that other departments like to use maintenance to dump delays on, even if we haven't been involved at all.

 checkmark 

While not involved with aviation, a common practice in any industry.
I can not tell you how many meetings I have sat in where the "CYA" syndrome had lead to the point of being ridiculous.
My philosophy has always been to use delay reports as a TOOL to know which direction to allocate your resources, whether training and what area, additional oversight, man power, financial, parts, etc.
The CYA syndrome seems to always prevail regardless.

Okie
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Tue May 02, 2006 5:09 am

Remember: Not all of the airlines have the SAME Part 121 Continued Airworthiness Maintenance Programs. Each one has its own unique program that MUST be approved by the F.A.A. The F.A.A. and D.O.T. does yearly audits of airline maintenance bases.

The way AA does their checks and how they name them may/may not be the same as NW, AS, CO and vice versa.

[Edited 2006-05-01 22:09:49]
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Sat May 06, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 25):
The F.A.A. and D.O.T. does yearly audits of airline maintenance bases.

I forgot to add: the D.O.D. does the same thing too.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
ilikeyyc
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Sat May 06, 2006 9:18 pm

Here at EV, we will be transitioning from the typical A checks (done every 500 hours) and C checks (every 4000 hours) to a phase inspection program. I'm not sure what the new intervals are or how many there are, but the reasoning is that it will keep the airplanes in the air longer.

Quoting Amtrosie (Reply 19):
Most of the posters on this sight work midnights. They work tired and sleep deprived more often than not. The job requirerments are tough- on personal, social, and recreational lives. This is huge reason why so many are leaving the industry. REMEMBER: "if you got there, thank the mechanic".

Amen! I haven't had a "normal" sleep for a while now. I either get 4-6 hours sleep, or I crash and burn all day on my time off. Also, I learned the quote as "If its in the air, Maintenance put it there"
Fighting Absurdity with Absurdity!
 
MesaMXORD
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RE: Airliner Maintenance

Thu May 18, 2006 8:59 am

EMB-145 2DAY/5DAY checks, and routines every 100hrs I think "A" checks are 400hrs
CRJ-200 Service CK Every 3 Days, and routines every 100hrs same on "A" checks
CRJ700/900 72HR Check Service CK Every 5 days same on RT and "A" check. I haven't heard of a "B" check but the crj has all sorts of 4000/6000/8000hr or 12/24/36/48 month checks. Its all safety conscious job security.
72hr/2day/5day/SVC/RT can be done during the flight day
MESA - fighting common sense one day at a time

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