cancidas
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Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Thu May 04, 2006 1:14 am

as seen in these photos:


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Photo © Marc Fulton



when the 757 was still in production, was it still available with the in tegral airstairs or was it an after-market option? i know that on the 737 it was available from boeing directly. also, where is it stored? it's not under the L1 door as on the 737 but looks like it is installed inside the airplane. anybody have any info on this?
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Tristarsteve
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Thu May 04, 2006 2:13 am

Sorry, I have worked on B757 since 1987 and never seen airstairs before!
Sure is not a boeing option, but some after market mod.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Thu May 04, 2006 2:50 am

These are the same airstairs installed on the Navy's C40's. They are very bad, and don't work very well when the temperature drops below 40 degrees. They seize in the middle of retracting. When they do work, the fold up inside the dorrway, and slide on tracks into a crawlspace to the side of the door area.
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cancidas
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Thu May 04, 2006 6:08 am

jetjack, are you referring to the fwd or aft stairs on the c-40? i thought that the fwd ones do not fold but just retract into the fuselage...
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wilax
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Thu May 04, 2006 1:37 pm

****Amateur Opinion Warning****

It looks to me that the stairs on the above 757 in the second photo are an addon which folds 4 times at the visible joints and stows just inside the main entry door. They are probably only carried there when they will be needed. I don't see where they could slide inside the fuselage under the floor like the 737. It also looks like there would have to be some type of motor that articulates the stairs because that setup looks quite heavy for a person to operate.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Thu May 04, 2006 2:31 pm

Quoting Cancidas (Reply 3):
jetjack, are you referring to the fwd or aft stairs on the c-40? i thought that the fwd ones do not fold but just retract into the fuselage...

I'm referring to the Door 2L. It's a and add-on airstair. It slides out on tracks, in-front of the door(folded up-right from the crawl-space), you lock it down with floor-anchors which activate the electric power to the stairs, you extend them by pressing a button that extends the stairs down to the deck.

Quoting Wilax (Reply 4):
It looks to me that the stairs on the above 757 in the second photo are an addon which folds 4 times at the visible joints and stows just inside the main entry door

That's the crawlspace i'm referring to.
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LTU932
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Thu May 04, 2006 5:28 pm

Quoting Cancidas (Thread starter):
it's not under the L1 door as on the 737 but looks like it is installed inside the airplane. anybody have any info on this?

Actually on the pictures you showed, the airstars are installed below the L1 door.
 
speedmarque
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Fri May 05, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 6):
Actually on the pictures you showed, the airstars are installed below the L1 door.

No. they are coming from the floor/girt area and not from the small hatch below the door as on some 737s
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Sat May 06, 2006 5:35 am

The B757s were never built with Integral Air Stair.This looks like a Customer Add-on.
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LTU932
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Sat May 06, 2006 11:40 am

Quoting Speedmarque (Reply 7):
No. they are coming from the floor/girt area

That's what I meant by below the L1.  Wink I was just using a more general term.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:58 pm

Is there a manufacturers link for these Air Stairs available.Also Is the operating sequence similiar to the Airstair on a B737.
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MEL
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zanl188
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:15 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
Is there a manufacturers link for these Air Stairs available.Also Is the operating sequence similiar to the Airstair on a B737.

Wow Mel you've mined another oldie but goodie from the tech/ops archive... Now if you could find some ??? that'd be something!!  Smile

What I'm curious about on jets with these airstairs is this: How do the crews close them up for overnight/longterm parking? Can the doors be closed with the stairs extended? That seems unlikely if they are stored in the cabin... I'm guessing there is a hellhole in one of the pits or gear bays that a person could use to exit the aircraft after retracting the stairs and closing the main deck door.
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boeingfixer
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:32 am

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 11):
What I'm curious about on jets with these airstairs is this: How do the crews close them up for overnight/longterm parking? Can the doors be closed with the stairs extended? That seems unlikely if they are stored in the cabin... I'm guessing there is a hellhole in one of the pits or gear bays that a person could use to exit the aircraft after retracting the stairs and closing the main deck door.

Use a belt loader for the last person off the aircraft from another door.

Cheers,

John
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HAWK21M
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:59 am

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 11):
Can the doors be closed with the stairs extended? That seems unlikely if they are stored in the cabin... I'm guessing there is a hellhole in one of the pits or gear bays that a person could use to exit the aircraft after retracting the stairs and closing the main deck door.

On the B737 Airstair was stored below the Entry door sealed by a seperate door.The Airstair could be opened from Inside & Outside the Aircraft thru an AC or DC [Hot bus] powersupply.
But the B757 Air stair looks different.

regds
MEL
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zanl188
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:36 am

Quoting BoeingFixer (Reply 12):
Use a belt loader for the last person off the aircraft from another door.

Pointless if the idea is to reduce the aircrafts dependence on ground support equipment....
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boeingfixer
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:31 am

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 14):
Quoting BoeingFixer (Reply 12):
Use a belt loader for the last person off the aircraft from another door.



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 14):
Pointless if the idea is to reduce the aircrafts dependence on ground support equipment....

Heavy emphasis on REDUCE in your comment, not eliminate.

Although you may think it's pointless, have you ever tried loading/unloading 757 belly pits without a belt loader? The first picture indicates that one is required and most airports will have one despite not having Airstairs.

Other options include lift trucks, lift platforms, ladder in the back of a truck etc.... to get the last crew member off. Lots of ways you can do it.

The main reason to have those retractable Airstairs is for passenger comfort/safety when real Airstairs are not available.

Cheers,

John
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zanl188
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting BoeingFixer (Reply 15):
Although you may think it's pointless, have you ever tried loading/unloading 757 belly pits without a belt loader?

Yep -- Straight to or from the back of a truck. Done the same with all the widebodies too...

Quoting BoeingFixer (Reply 15):
The first picture indicates that one is required and most airports will have one despite not having Airstairs.

My experience has been rather the opposite... i.e. if an airport has any ground support equipment it will have stairs and not loaders... but to each his own
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HAWK21M
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:04 pm

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 14):
Pointless if the idea is to reduce the aircrafts dependence on ground support equipment....

Not if the unit is used by a trained person who folds the Air stair after the Pax are off it.
Makes sense.
regds
MEL
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zanl188
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 17):
Not if the unit is used by a trained person who folds the Air stair after the Pax are off it.
Makes sense.

Makes sense only if the person has a way to get off the aircraft. If the airstair folds up and is then stowed in the cabin, one person cannot do that task and operate the belt loader (assuming there is one). I suppose you could do it the long way around, run the loader up to another door, raise the belt, cut off the loader, open the 2nd door, fold/stow the stair, and then reverse the process with the belt loader (again assuming there's a belt loader handy). Doesn't seem likely or practical....

Which brings me back to my question... hows does the person folding/stowing the stairs get off the jet?
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Viscount724
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:45 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 13):
On the B737 Airstair was stored below the Entry door sealed by a seperate door.The Airstair could be opened from Inside & Outside the Aircraft thru an AC or DC [Hot bus] powersupply.

737-200C Combis with main deck cargo door have a rear airstair attached to the door which opens downward rather than outward. Aircraft in photos also have the optional equipment for use on gravel runways.


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cancidas
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:48 am

aside from a separate set of stairs there really is no way to fold those stairs from the inside then get off. it's not like they fold under the L1 door, they're inside the airplane. it doesn't appear that they can even close the door with those stairs on. does anyone know who manufactures the stairs? i'm at work now and searching capabilities are severly restrcited here.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:09 am

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 18):
hows does the person folding/stowing the stairs get off the jet

Ever heard of a Mx Trestle  Smile

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):
737-200C Combis with main deck cargo door have a rear airstair attached to the door which opens downward rather than outward. Aircraft in photos also have the optional equipment for use on gravel runways

Rear Airstair was also used on some early B732s,not only B732Cs.
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MEL
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sv2008
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):
Aircraft in photos also have the optional equipment for use on gravel runways.

How does a 737 take off from a gravel runway??? I heard of this before, but just can't picture it. why would any airport build such a long runway (that a jet could take off on) but not out of asphalt? Wouldn't the engines and the weight of the aircraft disturb the surface? Wouldn't it tend to sink into it? Wouldn't the engines be damaged by flying stones?
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:21 am

On the left photo it doesn't look like the stares fold into the door. From what I can tell the stairs are stored in the cargo compartment on a pallet. The pallet is unloaded using the belt loader and put on a cart. (the cart is parked right in front of the nose landing gear). Someone on the ground somehow assembles the stairs and hooks them up to the door. Who does what in my above scenario is a mystery to me.
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airfoilsguy
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:27 am

Quoting Sv2008 (Reply 22):
How does a 737 take off from a gravel runway???

The nose gear has a special plate or mud flap the keeps the rocks down. The engines have a pipe like nozzle just under the intake that helps keep the gravel from being sucked into the engines.

Quoting Sv2008 (Reply 22):
why would any airport build such a long runway (that a jet could take off on) but not out of asphalt?

A lot cheaper to have an unpaved runway.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
cancidas
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:24 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 23):
On the left photo it doesn't look like the stares fold into the door. From what I can tell the stairs are stored in the cargo compartment on a pallet. The pallet is unloaded using the belt loader and put on a cart. (the cart is parked right in front of the nose landing gear). Someone on the ground somehow assembles the stairs and hooks them up to the door. Who does what in my above scenario is a mystery to me.

that kind of defeats the purpose of having them installed on the airplane. if someone has to pull them out of the belly and then hoist them up to the L1 door you're losing time while all the pax are onboard waiting to deplane. i think that the stairs in both pix are the same, and that when they are folded they retract into the cabin and are stored against the sidewall just fwd of the door, similiar to that on the SAAB 340 and 2000.
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Viscount724
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting Sv2008 (Reply 22):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):
Aircraft in photos also have the optional equipment for use on gravel runways.

How does a 737 take off from a gravel runway??? I heard of this before, but just can't picture it. why would any airport build such a long runway (that a jet could take off on) but not out of asphalt? Wouldn't the engines and the weight of the aircraft disturb the surface? Wouldn't it tend to sink into it? Wouldn't the engines be damaged by flying stones?

Gravel runways used by 737s are very solid. They just don't have a paved surface. I've flown on 737-200Cs with the gravel runway kits to a couple of airports in far northern Canada. Of course in that part of Canada, runways are snow-covered and frozen solid for about 2/3 of the year, probably even harder than concrete!

Boeing's gravel kits for 732s included bleed air nozzles that extend below the lower edge of the engine intakes and minimize the risk of ingesting gravel and debris. They also have a deflector attached to the nose gear to prevent debris from being kicked up into the engines. They have a few other less visible features including a special Teflon paint on the lower wings/fuselage to reduce damage from flying stones, and a retractable rotating beacon on the lower fuselage (retracted during takeoff/landing to reduce risk of breakage). I think they also have heavy duty landing gear and brakes/tires.

In these photos you can see the nosegear deflector panel and the bleed air nozzles just below the engine intakes.


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727s have also regularly used gravel runways in northern Canada.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:34 pm

Quoting Sv2008 (Reply 22):
How does a 737 take off from a gravel runway??? I heard of this before, but just can't picture it. why would any airport build such a long runway (that a jet could take off on) but not out of asphalt? Wouldn't the engines and the weight of the aircraft disturb the surface? Wouldn't it tend to sink into it? Wouldn't the engines be damaged by flying stones



These were during the days when there was need to operate to non paved runway airports too.
The Gravel deflector on the NLG door & the Gravel deflector nozzle fwd of the Nose cowl on the Engine were the differences.
http://www.b737.org.uk

regds
MEL
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DeltaGuy
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:34 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 2):
These are the same airstairs installed on the Navy's C40's

Nice Jax Sunseekers bird there Jack.....can't say they haven't tried to kill me in the pattern over at NAS a time or two....

IIRC the airstairs was a default option on the 732?

DeltaGuy
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HAWK21M
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:48 pm

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 28):
IIRC the airstairs was a default option on the 732

True.Quite a foldable contraption.Caution is no safety sequence switches in Stby mode.So got to ensure the Hand Rails are stored prior to Retraction  Smile
regds
MEL
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SkydrolBoy
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:11 am

The airstairs are an aftermarket option for the 757, they fold up into the cabin of the aircraft then slide sideways into the wardrobe just aft of the L1 door. On the two aircraft that I have worked on that have these stairs installed, also have an electrically operated E and E bay door and ladder that is operated from a Switch on the nose gear. There is also a hatch installed in the cabin floor giving you access to the E and E bay, which would allow one of the crew members to climb up into the aircraft and open the L1 door and deploy the airstairs.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:12 pm

Quoting SkydrolBoy (Reply 30):
On the two aircraft that I have worked on that have these stairs installed, also have an electrically operated E and E bay door and ladder that is operated from a Switch on the nose gear. There is also a hatch installed in the cabin floor giving you access to the E and E bay, which would allow one of the crew members to climb up into the aircraft and open the L1 door and deploy the airstairs

Interesting.Whose Aircraft are these.Also where does the ladder store in the MEC.
regds
MEL
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flynavy
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:31 am

Here's another picture I took of a Navy C-40A's airstairs:

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SkydrolBoy
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 31):
Interesting.Whose Aircraft are these.Also where does the ladder store in the MEC.

The Dallas Mavericks and Vulcan Aviations a/c are the ones I've worked on with the stairs. The ladder is attached to a winch and it is bolted to the E&E bay ceiling, it just swings down out of the door, next time I see one of the a/c I'll try and get some pics of the ladder.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:37 am

Quoting SkydrolBoy (Reply 33):
it just swings down out of the door, next time I see one of the a/c I'll try and get some pics of the ladder.

How is it sliding locked in place as the MEC door opens Inner & Left.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
cancidas
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:45 pm

another question. the stairs that are installed on the above 757s, could they be installed on a 767?
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edina
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RE: Boeing 757 Integral Airstairs

Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:03 am

Looks very similar to the airstairs on the BAe 146 which also slide on a track into the doorway.
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