varig767
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"I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:46 pm

Hello all!

As far as I know, the terminology "I have the plane" is used in flying lessons, so there is always somebody (either student or instructor) on the controls.

However, I read this several years ago, is it still common use to say these words??

Kind regards,

Martijn Droog
 
MrChips
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:54 pm

Here in Canada, it is pretty much law that there is a "You Have Control/I Have Control" handoff. It greatly reduces the frequency of situations where there is any doubt as to who is actually flying - and this applies for more than just flight training.
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futureuapilot
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:28 pm

My flight Instructor says "Your Plane / My Plane." It's simpler and quicker as well as reduses the time without anyone on the controls.

-Sam
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Pihero
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:25 pm

Quoting Varig767 (Thread starter):
As far as I know, the terminology "I have the plane" is used in flying lessons,

Not only during training but in everyday ops.It makes everyone aware on who is flying the aircraft. It seems, as Mr Chips says that the formula is nowadays a very positive :"I/You have control".
That formula is,with CRM-conscious airlines (aren't they all, now ?), the first item of any abnormal check-list.And it becomes even more important during phases of some urgency - like a TCAS resolution-. It means that one is responsible for the trajectory and the other is helping with the ancillaries.
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bri2k1
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:08 pm

Many cirricula now encourage a three-way exchange of control:

Instructor: "You have the flight controls"
Student: "I have the flight controls"
Instructor: "You have the flight controls"

The student is never confused about who is in control. This is useful for lower-time students who may not even be very comfortable with speaking in the cockpit. In practice, its generally not used when the instructor takes control back from the student, but only when giving control to the student.
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saab2000
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:39 am

This applies not only for students. Airlines are very clear about this too and we use it every day.
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msllsmith
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:43 am

I think that anything that indicates who's flying the damned thing works.....

As long as SOMEONE is flying...... "You take it", or "I've got it"

I find also that if the PF is screaming..... or gagging.... or unconscious..... these are also indications for the PNF to take the controls.

But then again I'm 60 years behind in aviation..... so what do I know.
There's nothing more beautiful than flying into the dawn.
 
Mir
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:53 am

I've been flying for three years now, and this kind of cross-checking has always been used in some form ("my airplane", "my flight controls", "you have control", etc.).

-Mir
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N766UA
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:01 am

I say it when flying with any other pilot where we're sharing control at any point.
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msllsmith
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:53 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 8):
I say it when flying with any other pilot where we're sharing control at any point.

Well, no, if you think about it, only ONE person can be flying. Otherwise that's how accidents happen.

It's kind of the equivalent of "too many cooks spoil the broth"..... there have been a number of GA accidents where there are two or more pilots in the a/c and instead of a decision being made, a discussion happens among them which wastes time and causes confusion..... and all is lost. It's kind of anti-CRM in that case. I believe that in the situation where there are more than one licenced pilot in a small GA a/c that a clear PIC has to be designated at all times.
There's nothing more beautiful than flying into the dawn.
 
N766UA
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:13 am

Quoting Msllsmith (Reply 9):
Well, no, if you think about it, only ONE person can be flying. Otherwise that's how accidents happen.

You know what I mean. And if you don't for some reason, I mean sharing responsibility over the course of the flight... not simultaneously.  sarcastic 
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jamesbuk
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:36 am

Yup we use it the instructer normally says it though like he'll say I have control, and ill say You have control and then he'll say You have control, I have control.
Simple really.

Rgds --James--
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HorizonGirl
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:56 am

Quoting MrChips (Reply 1):

Yes, whenever I've taken the controls, it's always been
"You have control/I have control."

Devon
Flying high on the Wings of the Great Northwest!
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:44 am

The Army is HUGE on 3-way control transfer.

After losing a couple AH-64 Apache helicopters in class-A accidents... they bought into the whole idea.

In the Apache, the pilots sit behind/in front of one another. There is no way to visually check that the transfer of control. So proper cockpit communication is essential, but it was a problem in the early days. The pilot flying would say, "You have the controls." To which the other pilot gives a grunt or something similar, leading the pilot to think he had transfered the controls and wasn't flying anymore. In fact no one is flying, because the 2nd pilot grunted at something completely different and didn't even here his buddy out back transfer him the controls. So no one is flying and they crash.

Which isn't surprising... the average apache driver doesn't have a vocabulary more advanced than say a gorilla. Hooting, grunting and what not.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
Mr Spaceman
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Traini

Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:54 am

Hi guys.

Quoting Varig767 (Thread starter):
"I have the plane"



Quoting Varig767 (Thread starter):
is it still common use to say these words??

>> Varig767, as mentioned above, the answer is yes. It is verbally expressed between the pilots in the cockpit who has control of the airplane.

During my PPL training in 1986/87 both flying clubs I flew with used "I have control" & "You have control" between the instructor & student while flying along.

I had a certain instructor (who's name shall go unmentioned .... John Morruzzi  silly  ), use the important phrase "I Have Control!!!" with extreme ergency in his voice on a few occasions. Once during climbout off of runway 08 at the Toronto Island Airport (CYTZ), when I was the PF and my seat suddenly slid all the way back to the stops and I could barely touch the controls in the Cessna 152 as I was passing through about 1,500 feet.

Another time I can remember those words with a stern voice was when I was on very short final for runway 33 at the same airport and my instructor took control and yelled at me ..."do you think you came close enough to those trees???", as we were descending over tall trees near the runway's threshold. I thought everything was looking fine, but he sure didn't.

I may have cause that instuctor's blood pressure to rapidly increase on other occasions too that I can't recall at the moment.  bitelip 


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ua777222
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:14 pm

Quoting Bri2k1 (Reply 4):
Many cirricula now encourage a three-way exchange of control:

Instructor: "You have the flight controls"
Student: "I have the flight controls"
Instructor: "You have the flight controls"

This correct. It is my understanding that it will slowly be required. I sat with an FAA instructor who praised my ability to use the 3-way system. It was, however, only taught to me by one of my 3 instructors.

"You have the controls"
"I have the controls"
"You have the controls"

or

"Your Aircraft"
"My Aircraft"
"Your Aircraft"

All my best,

Matt
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
msllsmith
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:53 pm

Quoting Msllsmith (Reply 9):
Well, no, if you think about it, only ONE person can be flying. Otherwise that's how accidents happen.



Quoting N766UA (Reply 10):
You know what I mean. And if you don't for some reason, I mean sharing responsibility over the course of the flight... not simultaneously.

Yes, I did know what you meant, but was trying to emphasise what others have since brought up.....clear communication, clear division of responsibilities when in the context of a small a/c and more than one "pilot". I think there is a lot of room for education about things like CRM and the concept of Sterile Cockpit in GA. Ideas we take for granted in commercial aviation (highly regulated). The original question was a very good one, because it allows all of us non-commercial aviation types to spend some time thinking about these things the next time we climb into a 172 with our chums.

On a very personal note, I remember with some chills (because I had two of my children in the backseat), an instance on take off while I'm sitting in the right seat day dreaming my brains out and the left seat said kind of casually, "You take it."...... I wasn't expecting it, and it took me a second to even realize he had just given me the plane. I learned a lesson and had a little talk with my friend about it afterwards. Obviously nothing happened, it was just a little bobble, I should have been more on my toes and he should have waited for me to acknowledge it. So we both learned something.

(edited for content)

[Edited 2006-06-03 15:22:35]
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pilotpip
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:34 pm

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 15):
It was, however, only taught to me by one of my 3 instructors.

Odd, Positive exchange of controls (what they like to call this three-step method) is actually an area of emphasis in the CFI PTS.

After some confusion with a student I reverted back to this unless imminent death could be the result of taking the time to do this.
DMI
 
ua777222
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:38 pm

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 17):

Odd, Positive exchange of controls (what they like to call this three-step method) is actually an area of emphasis in the CFI PTS.

After some confusion with a student I reverted back to this unless imminent death could be the result of taking the time to do this.

It was with my first instructor. A young guy. Taught it to me before we even left the ramp and has implanted it in my mind. My second CFI was an older guy who was really into aviation and bought 2 Cessna's and put them into the FBO's rental fleet and is a CFI for them. Was very lax about the professional state of the cockpit. A great pilot none the less but if I had to name his "akilies heel" so to say, it would be that he had expected the professional attitude out of me as a standard and because he got it out of me he never felt the need to imply the standard. I can count the times I've not said "My Aircraft" or "I've got the controls" back to him and the lesson proceeded as usual on my two hands but the fact that it was allowed is an error none the less. I am just going up with a new guy tomorrow. I've flown with him once prior. He seems like fresh meat. Very much the kind of guy who after you do you W&B and weather checks, he looks at you like you're supposed to lead the show.

We'll see how tomorrow goes.

Thanks!

Matt
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
highflyer9790
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:36 am

remember its not just for students. some airlines make it mandatory to use this terminology, for example if a pilot goes to the lav or to open the door..
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Starlionblue
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RE: "I Have The Plane" Still Used In Flight Training?

Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:35 am

Handover announcements (and any procedural announcements) are also useful for, ahem, big brother.

There's a story in Sweden about an old crusty SK Captain and his freshly minted female F/O. The Captain was old school (in the bad way) and not very happy with women in the cockpit. While on approach to CPH with the Captain flying, the F/O was going through the checklist but the Captain only deigned her with grunts in return. He was so obviously pissed about the whole idea of flying with a woman. As they were approaching decision height, she decided that since he was not responding to the checklists he was a risk to a safe landing while at the controls. So she took matters into her own hands, said "going around" and "my aircraft". She then proceeded to go around.

Apparently his silence ended quickly with a long stream of curses. On debriefing the F/O said that she knew what was happening and really had no choice but to take over, with all the proper "my aircraft" call-outs. CVR transcripts proved that she had been following procedure to the letter, and he had been... grunting angrily. That was his last flight with SK.
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